German Ignorance

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
What's wrong with what that girl said?

Actually nothing, since her statements fits finely with the freedom of speech, and in some countries that freedom is actually taken litterally how boring that may be (I guess you also has to suffer under suchregime )

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by MrFun (and modified by me!)
my list of Apolytoners available for sheer amusement is growing:

Ned
Fez
Park Avenue
Muad'Dib
DanS
Winston


I'm sure I forgot one or two others at this moment.

Y'know just when you think some of the posters on this forum can't get any more hypocritically moronic, along comes someone new who just completely blows apart that misconception...

Talking of holocausts and stuff, it is interesting that no one has even bothered to mention...

Year Zero

Cambodia is the US' Holocaust plain and simple.

By indiscriminately bombing a neutral country killing tens of thousands of civilians and effecting a right-wing military coup, the US acted as the recruiting banner for Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge, until then a rag-tag group of extremists with next to no popular support.

Once the US lost the war in Vietnam they betrayed their puppet government in Cambodia by leaving it to fend for itself as Pol Pot visited a living hell on the entire country for 3 years killing 2,000,000 people starting just eleven days from when the last American fled Saigon...



Congratulations Muad'Dib, welcome to my Hypocritical Tw*ts of Poly Hall of Shame - you're in esteemed company...

[MichaeltheGreat]

I don't think he cares.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Y'know just when you think some of the posters on this forum can't get any more hypocritically moronic, along comes someone new who just completely blows apart that misconception...

But you aren't new

[MOBIUS]

*Says Kuciwalker as he gazes into the mirror*

[Atahualpa]

There was a holocaust??

Seriously Muad'Dib, first you should cut on your insults, this is getting you nowhere. Second, there are elected representatives in Germany who you can turn to as for their statements on the holocaust. Why not take their statements over those of some randomly picked up teenager? Third, self-critic is an important part for a functional democracy, teenagers have yet to learn that, you OTOH should already know!
Fourth, this whole holocaust thing while tragic is getting on my nerves and will lose all its power if you invoke it every millisecond! People will not become sensible, but blunted.
I've been to Buchenau and I saw the horrors of the past. Even though it was my grand or great grandfather (generally spoken) who commited the atrocities. Have you been to Vietnam? Have your children been? How many young Americans go there and educate themselves about the horrors?
AFAIK there are lots of schools in Germany and Austria who organize trips to concentration camps.

As I'd try to interpret what the kid was saying: hey man, why aren't you looking at yourself for some moment. We've been told for 30 years that we are bad bad bad. And when I look around, I see atrocities and war and suffering everywhere... and you know... when we were so bad.. what's that what you were doing?

I think it's only a valid question in order to be able to define yourself in an environment.

[Ecthy]

I've been to Ravensbrück, Muad'Dib. Have you ever visisted Vietnam?

[Muad'Dib]

I've been to Ravensbrück, Muad'Dib. Have you ever visisted Vietnam?

Came close once. Went to Thailand & Malaysia, but I ran out of money and had to go back home. Besides the US hadn't normalized relations yet, so it was rather difficult to get in. And I bet you didn't go until after '89. I'll get there eventually.

[Ecthy]

Also before '89 you could visit concentration camps. On the contrary. as far as anti-fascism goes the commies did a better hob than these liberal twits.

[BlackCat]

Actually, it wasn't nessecary to visit these camps to see what happend - personally I have seen films from the camps in the early 70'ies (not that they wasn't available earlier, I just wasn't old enough before ).

[Ecthy]

Those films are liberal lies.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Nice rebuttal.

Compared to the crap you posted, yes.

Somebody should let Uncle Fidel know he's not in charge anymore.

Someone should give you a history book of your own country, preferably 1896-1914.

Hitler to Hadler: "The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. All officers will have to rid themselves of obsolete ideologies. I know that the necessity for such means of waging war is beyond the comprehension of you generals but... I insist absolutely that my orders be executed without contradiction. The commissars are the bearers of ideologies directly opposed to National Socialism. Therefore the commissars will be liquidated. German soldiers guilty of breaking international law... will be excused. Russia has not participated in the Hague Convention and therfore has no rights inder it."

Show me a directive from Nixon, Westmoreland, or any US officer inregards to Mi Lai, and I'll admit I'm wrong. Ass hole

Mi Lai was an aberation.

:sigh:

NOBODY here is saying that the Holocaust and the Vietnam War are comparable, is it so hard to get that into your little head? Moreso, despite repeated mentionings, will you be so kind as to explain to us why you consider the words of one German kid to be representative of the entire German nation?

Btw, if you want evidence of genocide undertaken by Americans, seems you keep forgetting your less than stellar record with the native american populations:

"Kill Cheyennes wherever and whenever found"

"Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."

- Col. John Chivington (Military District of Colorado, 1864)

"We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to their extermination, men, women, children."

- Gen. William Sherman (1866)

want to read more?

[MrFun]

I'm sure he would love to learn about the fabulous period of 1880s through the 1930s during which thousands of blacks in the American South were lynched in various grotesque ways.


May I suggest the illustrative book, Without Sanctuary to start with?

[chequita guevara]

Uhm, G'itmo, anyone? Canal Zone?

Herreson, yes, Poles were the second largest group of people killed in the Holocaust, because three million of those Jews were Poles. How many Poles died in the Holocaust? Three million.

Maud'ib seems to have completely ignored the whole concept of the Free Fire Zone. FFZs were areas where the U.S. was allowed to kill anyone in it, mainly innocent villagers.

BTW, only two million Vietnamese died during our part of the war.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Yes, but we don't own the Phillipines now, do we?

Irrelevant. The point is, that outside the North American continent, the Spanish-American War is when American imperialism really began.

The after effects can still be seen in American policy towards the Panama Canal and Panama itself, the American sponsored coup against the legitimate democratically elected Arbenz government of Guatemala in the 1950s, to serve the interests of the United Fruit Company, many of whose major shareholders and directors happened to be in Eisenhower's cabinet or were, for instance, American ambassador to the United Nations.

It can be seen in America's attitude towards Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela, Angola- imperialism isn't simply about owning or occupying foreign territory, it's also about a mindset and economic power.

But don't take my word for it- try this man:

" It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."


Major General Smedley Butler, U.S.M.C.