Homosexuality

[Ben Kenobi]

Well ok yes. But when they don't believe in the good book and neither does the secular state (the whole separation between state and church coming in here) then why do you guys (though I realise not all religious people feel this need) feel the need to care about what gay people get up to. Thats the bit I don't really get.

We do believe in the good book. We don't insist that the government care about what we care about, but sometimes they coincide, when there are secular consequences for these actions.

As for us caring about what other people do, well, that's part of loving your neighbour. We believe that these actions hurt gay people most of all, and that they will be happier without them.

When you look at the HIV transmission rates, and the fact that gay people themselves have accused the government of not caring about them that gives the government authority to do something about other people's private lives.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

i can answer somewhat i dont care what the gays do i just dont want to hear bout it or see it on display. i feel the same as for straight folks. before im hung and shot sexually behavior is a private affair not for the public.

[Lancer]

"i can answer somewhat i dont care what the gays do i just dont want to hear bout it or see it on display. i feel the same as for straight folks. before im hung and shot sexually behavior is a private affair not for the public."

[Flip McWho]

As for us caring about what other people do, well, that's part of loving your neighbour. We believe that these actions hurt gay people most of all, and that they will be happier without them.

Aye, ok. but in many cases this loving of thy neighbour is unwanted then can't they just be left alone? Also just because you do believe in it doesn't mean everyone else wants too. If someone has happily decided that the good book is actually a crock of bs then just because you love your neighbour doesn't give you the right to interfer and offer your advice based on something that they don't accept.

i can answer somewhat i dont care what the gays do i just dont want to hear bout it or see it on display. i feel the same as for straight folks. before im hung and shot sexually behavior is a private affair not for the public.

I agree, sexual behavior is for behind closed doors. No f***ing on the streets.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

You know you don't get to have a penis anymore, and you have to screw ugly fat chicks.

And you'll have terrible fashion sense too!

[Jon Miller]

BK, when you don't seperate church and state, history has shown that church comes away injured

the main reason, I feel, for the rampant atheism in western europe is the state churchs (that existed until recently) there

and that is not even considering that most major christian denominations have been persecuted against at one point or another (especally all the ones older than 150 years)

JM

[Pekka]

Originally posted by Ned


Nah, you are about the same age as my daughter. But, still, I don't hold your lack of experience against you.

thanks.. it's weird, the first reaction was, 'ohh what have I said to him!? damn it I have talked trash a lot haven't I.. '.. Well.. take it into account that I might be semi crazy, I blurt out things.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


What if the tests show that we have better function after becoming a Christian?

Judging by how easily Boris, che or I can explode your arguments here on 'Poly, I'd say homo or Commie trumps Christian sectary any day.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
im up to speed lancer has a girl that might be good for bk, working out the details not hard to get

Except that Ben is too cheap to part with a dollar.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Precisely so. These differences are not trumpeted by the religious right, rather they are celebrated by the gay rights folks.

In the same way that we see folks who profit by assuming there are racial differences today.

It was one researcher, and some gay men and lesbians, not all.

My goodness, you do like to exaggerate, don't you ?


Still, one lone gay researcher and a few gays and lesbians hardly balances all those religious bigots who've accused gay men and lesbians of being unnatural, now does it ?


In any case, this is all predicated upon the assumption that there's a dichotomy: gay/straight, which in itself assumes an awful lot about the diversity of the world's cultures (and history) and imposes a specific set of values derived from one particular religion.

Does anyone seriously believe there were some specific hormonal changes that took place only in the Graeco-Roman world, for instance, and mainly prior to the spread of Judaeo-Christianity ?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
As for us caring about what other people do, well, that's part of loving your neighbour. We believe that these actions hurt gay people most of all, and that they will be happier without them.

We believe being a meddlesome, big brotheresque religious nut is more harmful to people than being gay. Ergo, we should ban religion.

You're, frankly, not qualified to pass judgment on the existence of gay people. As we've gone over time and again, there is nothing intrinsically wrong or harmful about being gay.

When you look at the HIV transmission rates,

Highest among straight minority women these days. Also comparably high among other minorities in urban settings. Very, very low in lesbians. So can we dispense with the generalizations?

Overwhelmingly, HIV transmission rates are based on socioeconomic factors. It's the poor and minorities that have the highest rates across the board.

Preventing HIV transmission is about preventing unsafe behavior and educating people about safe sex--for everyone--regardless of their sexual orientation. This has been borne out in practice.

and the fact that gay people themselves have accused the government of not caring about them that gives the government authority to do something about other people's private lives.

This is ridiculous logic. The government is charged with protecting people's rights, so it's natural that groups who believe their rights are being violated will go to it to address such greivances. That isn't remotely the same as using the government as a weapon against other people and to interfere in their private lives.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Japher
Or heterosexuality is the symptom of a birth defect!

No, because the expansion of evolution would be based on defects.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Skywise
No, because the expansion of evolution would be based on defects.

Erm, evolution IS based on defects. Random mutation + natural selection...

[Odin]

I read that male homosexuality seems depends on male birth order, the more older brothers you have the more likely you are to be gay. These reserchers think that it is a result of the mothers immune system attacking male fetuses as a result of small amounts of "male" hormones getting into the moms, bloodstream, and the mom's immune system gets better and better at neutalizing the male hormones after each male pregnancy. I may couse homosexuality because the mom's antibodies may get into the developing fetus. This is a good example that nurture can be just as "deterministic" as some people dispise nature as being.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Odin
I read that male homosexuality seems depends on male birth order, the more older brothers you have the more likely you are to be gay. .

Alas, I'm the first child and have a heterosexual younger brother.

Some of the people posting here seem to be hung up on finding out what 'causes' homosexuality as if it were a defect of some sort. Which to my mind is as pointless as finding the cause for males- female foetuses gone 'wrong', with largely useless nipples (nice to play with, though) and a vestigial womb that won't be seeing any use.

And of course, finding a 'biological cause' for homosexuality simply ignores other cultures where homosexuality isn't stigmatized, and overlooks civilizations in human history that weren't anti-homosexual.