There is a new Pope

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by molly bloom



"I tell ya, you shoulda seen the jugs on that nun...."

"Badda-BOOM, badda-BING!!!"

[Dinner]

Protestant belief in personal conscience.

Not having a dogmatic heirarchy trying to force their personal interpritations upon you.

Having a dogmatic heirarchy force their personal beliefs upon you

Especially when the previous is not based upon actual scripture.

[Ben Kenobi]

I agree AH.

But I think people have forgotten about the risks of taking the eucharist in an unworthy manner. If they really understood the significance of their own action, then they would not need to be reminded by the priests.

[Tuberski]

Apparently Benedict doesn't expect to last long:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050421/ap_on_re_eu/pope_s_health

ACK!

[Dinner]

He could last for decades drooling on himself in the old folks home.

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Well, my point is this. If the only reason you go to a church is because you have always gone, then perhaps it's better for you to leave.

I don't see any reason behind remaining a member of a church, if you cannot accept the moral teachings of that church.

I think there are plenty of Catholics, Americans and Canadians who love the church because of their firm stance, and they are willing to serve with their whole heart.

If you think North American Catholics are Catholic because they wholeheartedly believe in the church's firm stance, think again. We pretty much, practically are a seperate religion from Catholicism proper, anyway. As someone said on another board, "Catholic Lite." Get all that juicy religion with only half the dogma!

As I had said, if the North American Caltholics who believed, there would pretty much be no catholics in North America. Not plenty, but none; look at the previous poll; 2/3rds said that they would not follow the pope's ideology. (And actually American Catholics are more liberal on abortion issues than Protastants.) Thus, not "plenty."

And speaking of which, I never was spiritually Catholic in the first place; I just never bothered to actually offically leave. The last time I went to church was when my parents forced me to. I have been agnostic/semi-spiritual all my life and never really believed in christianty in the first place.

[Shi Huangdi]

Some of the right-wing Catholics who are orgasming over this are in for a dissapointment. The secular media is playing up Ratzinger as an uber-conservative jerk. What they are missing is that as head of the CDF it was his job to be the jerk- sort of like the boss who has to be unpleasant. He isn't a liberal by any means, but there is plenty in his record to suggest he won't be nearly as conservative as some of the traditionalists would like.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Bill3000

If you think North American Catholics are Catholic because they wholeheartedly believe in the church's firm stance, think again. We pretty much, practically are a seperate religion from Catholicism proper, anyway. As someone said on another board, "Catholic Lite." Get all that juicy religion with only half the dogma!

As I had said, if the North American Caltholics who believed, there would pretty much be no catholics in North America. Not plenty, but none; look at the previous poll; 2/3rds said that they would not follow the pope's ideology. (And actually American Catholics are more liberal on abortion issues than Protastants.) Thus, not "plenty."

And speaking of which, I never was spiritually Catholic in the first place; I just never bothered to actually offically leave. The last time I went to church was when my parents forced me to. I have been agnostic/semi-spiritual all my life and never really believed in christianty in the first place.

I don´t think that it´s much different from the german catholics.
Most of the catholics here don´t try too hard to follow all of the Vaticans rules, especially concerning contraception.
There was also strong restistance as JP II decided to get the catholic church out of abortion information centers (where women wanting to undergo an abortion could, after a consultation, get the needed certificate that they underwent a consultation concerning their abortion).
Sadly the struggle ended with a vistory for the vatican, as all the information centers were closed (despite strong resistance even from german bishops).
I have no doubt that the number of catholics will drop considerably if the vatican threatens to punish all breaking of rules harshly, especially if it is about contraception or sex before marriage.
Well, I have no doubt that it isn´t much different for most of the industrialized nations. People who try to follow all the teachings of the vatican without exceptions will rather be found in South america or Africa than in the modern western countries.

[Shi Huangdi]

As far as heresy goes, you are a heretic if you violate a defined dogma of the Church. A dogma is a core teaching of the Church above a normal doctrine which it is necessary to believe in order to remain a Catholic.

The clearest example for which infallibility can be defined is through extraordinary magisterium, or an ex cathedra statement by the pope. This has only been done in two places and requires a specific decleration that this is being done.

Another way a dogmatic statement is defines is if it done by a council of the church. So anything that has been declared by a council you are required to believe to remain a member of the Catholic Church.

Probably the most common way in which dogma is defined, but the most confusing to tell when it applies, is through ordinary magisterium. Ordinary magisterium is something that would be a Traditional teaching of the Church on Faith and Morals that the whole Church has consistently taught and believed, and a teaching that is for all time and all places. It can be unclear exactly what falls under this at what qualifies under this, and doctrine can develop so something that is the traditional interpretation of a teaching can change. For instance, it is a traditional teaching of the Church that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church(extra ecclesia nulla salus). However, while this was originally thought to mean no non-members of the Church can be saved, it is now believed that people who live a life of virtue can be members of the church without knowing it or without having explicit membership. So it is kind of hard to get some for heresy for disagreeing with this.

Of the sexual issues, sex outside of marriage has been condemned by a council(s), I think it was the Council of Orange that did this. As homosexual sex always falls outside of marriage(or at least those marriages recognized as valid by the church), that would fall under this. Masturbation and Abortion would both dogmatic under ordinary magisterium, if they are. Masturbation has been taught as gravely sinful consistently, however I am not aware of any specific dogmatic delcaration by a council this issue. With regard to abortion, while I don't think that is strictly dogmatic, the Church has attached through a canon law an order that procuring an abortion or assisting one leads to excommunication.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Masturbation has been taught as gravely sinful consistently, however I am not aware of any specific dogmatic delcaration by a council this issue.

trying to give yourself an out there huh?

[Ted Striker]

[Provost Harrison]

Just demonstrates how Catholicism is a whacky cult grown out of control...

[alva]

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Ned
I think we can dismiss anything said by the Brits as traditional jealously of and resentment of anything German.

didn't think I'd agree with Ned

[Provost Harrison]

Ned's a nutjob...take no notice...