There is a new Pope

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
placard?

Yes, a little sign to the effect that Teddy Rossevelt knelt here or something like that.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Why single out Americans? IIRC virtually every predominantly Catholic nation in Europe legalized abortion before the US did?

Yes. I think that perhaps the church should excommunicate all politicians who support abortion.
When it comes to legislation, I'm not sure. Probably France, and the catholic nations under communist occupation. But the rest I'm not sure.

The net effect of the interference with American politics by the RCC will be fewer Catholic politicians. Currently catholics may be nearly one quarter of the US population, but they're no where near one quarter of its politicians.

I'd blame it on the protestant anti-catholic bias.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Heresson
Yes. I think that perhaps the church should excommunicate all politicians who support abortion.
When it comes to legislation, I'm not sure. Probably France, and the catholic nations under communist occupation. But the rest I'm not sure.

You're a misguided soul and hatred will only breed more hatred. Furthermore if you excommunicate someone you state that you have given up on him. Your God would never give someone up though. Not on the sinner and not on those who don't believe in him.

But anyway, I think the RCC is manifesting itself too much as an institution propagating its own values unto the people and moving away from the message of their god more and more. The RCC continuing that path is doomed to fail.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

Which presidents were Unitarians? .

Both Adams'. Im not sure who else.

[lord of the mark]

TR and denominations:

'President Theodore Roosevelt manifested his Christianity all during his public and private life, as illustrated in this statement, when he first came to Washington: "When I first came to Washington, I did not know there was any Dutch Reformed Church there, and went with my wife to the Episcopal Church. But, on becoming President, I learned that there was a little obscure, red brick building tucked away on the back of a lot, and I immediately selected that as my Church.

...His family faith was the Dutch Reformed, but he found no church of that denomination at Cambridge, and drifted into a Mission School of the high church of Episcopalian faith. He did not stay there long... Roosevelt... did not observe the formalities of the High Church service as they thought he should. They asked if he had any objection to them. "None in the world, but I am Dutch Reformed." This did not help matters and in the end, Roosevelt left this field of labor and entered a Congregational Sunday School nearby, where he taught during the remainder of his college term.

Theodore Roosevelt's obituary includes the following paragraph, indicating active participation in a local Episcopalian congregation during his later years:
When Colonel Roosevelt returned from his South American journey in 1914, he gave the first account of his discoveries in an address at the local church, months ahead of the announcement of the discovery of the mysterious Brazilian River, now the Rio Teodoro, in a magazine. He was a village institution as the master of ceremonies over the Christmas tree in Christ Episcopal Church, and in the role of Santa Claus at the Cove Neck School, near Sagamore Hill, where all of his children learned the A B C's. Last Christmas was the first time that Colonel Roosevelt had failed to take charge of these functions since he left the White House, with the exception of the Christmas of 1913, when he was on his way to South America. His son, Captain Archie, took his place last Christmas as the Santa Claus of the Cove Neck School.

The "Christ Church" of Oyster Bay, an Episcopalian parish, claims Roosevelt as a member of their congregation on their web page:
From the 1880's on, the Roosevelt Family of Sagamore Hill together with many of their Roosevelt cousins attended Christ Church; and the church was often the focus of national attention after Theodore Roosevelt became the 26th President of the United States in 1901. TR attended Christ Church until his death in 1919, and former First Lady Edith Kermit Roosevelt was a faithful parishioner up to the time of her death in 1948.

As far as we can tell, Theodore Roosevelt maintained a denominational identity that was Dutch Reformed, but congregational affiliation with some Episcopalian parishes, as his wife was an Episcopalian. The authors of this webpage are studying this subject further. '

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Both Adams'. Im not sure who else.

Millard Fillmore and William Howard Taft.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Atahualpa


You're a misguided soul and hatred will only breed more hatred. Furthermore if you excommunicate someone you state that you have given up on him. Your God would never give someone up though. Not on the sinner and not on those who don't believe in him.

But anyway, I think the RCC is manifesting itself too much as an institution propagating its own values unto the people and moving away from the message of their god more and more. The RCC continuing that path is doomed to fail.

You have some point.
Except for that hatred part. I do not hate anyone.

[VetLegion]

Croatian newspaper.

[VetLegion]

That didn't work. Let me try to attach it.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
Furthermore if you excommunicate someone you state that you have given up on him.

That's not quite Catholic philosophy as I've learned it. Excommunication isn't irrevocable--indeed, many who have been excommunicated have eventually returned to the fold. It's meant to be a punishment that will bring about a change in behavior, not a permanent damnation.

[Ecthy]

:beer:

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ned


Molly, you misquote me.

However it is charming to see a leftist being such a patriot. I thought you Brits hated your heritage?

Actually I didn't 'quote you', I paraphrased you. Fairly accurately, too.

You also shouldn't make sweeping assumptions about patriotism and the Left- plenty of Socialists and Communists have been and continue to be patriots, as well as internationalists.

There is a difference between the hatefilled chauvinistic nationalism that parades as patriotism and a love of one's country- you have only to read works by the likes of William Morris to see that.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Heresson


Yes. I think that perhaps the church should excommunicate all politicians who support abortion.

And all Catholic politicians who support the death penalty, carry out wars, deny medical aid to the sick, food to the starving, are corrupt and sell offices, who have interest bearing bank accounts....


....oh and Catholic priests who are serial abusers of children, the various members of the Catholic Church hierarchy and local organisations that colluded in the worldwide cover-ups, and any of those ex-Nazis, Croatian Fascists and Vichy Regime still on the run and being sheltered or aided by Catholics.


And the Rwandan/Burundan and Bosnian war criminals, Irish Republican Army terrorists, Basque Nationalist terrorists, torturers in Guatemala, Colombia, Argentina, Chile, El Salvador....

[Heresson]

Originally posted by molly bloom


And all Catholic politicians who support the death penalty

yes

carry out wars

depends; there are different kinds of wars

, deny medical aid to the sick, food to the starving,

depends; state money is not their personal money

are corrupt and sell offices

I guess yes

....oh and Catholic priests who are serial abusers of children,

yes, as any serial child abusers

the various members of the Catholic Church hierarchy and local organisations that colluded in the worldwide cover-ups,

?

and any of those ex-Nazis, Croatian Fascists and Vichy Regime still on the run and being sheltered or aided by Catholics.

depends. It was such a long time ago that bringing it up makes little sense.

And the Rwandan/Burundan and Bosnian war criminals,
Irish Republican Army terrorists, Basque Nationalist terrorists, torturers in Guatemala, Colombia, Argentina, Chile, El Salvador....

yes.
As long as it all proven without a doubt.

I think that mild fundamentalism may be benefitial for the church. People would have to treat it seriously.

[Ben Kenobi]

Cool!