World Soccer Thread II

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
i just cant believe you are saying that MLS is good or even marginally good soccer - if any of the europeans could watch a single game, they would be agast and what goes on in the new world.

The MLS is just as good as the Guatamalan or Honduran leagues. It isn't that horrible at all. This is kind of what the soccer is like outside of the big European leagues. Look at Asian football or most African leagues. The MLS is definetly an average league in the world.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by notyoueither
What? No comments about Sir Alex letting the canary escape from the coal mine?

Norwich kicked ManU butt, and rightfully so. ManU doesn't have a respectable midfield line, so even with 4 strikers they have problems to score goals. There is one game this season when they sent all 4 out on the field and failed to score any.

[Az]

Did anyone catch the Real- Barca game?

[Urban Ranger]

Real won - amazing

[Az]

Well, they are 2nd place in La Liga, and they whooped barca 4:2, so yes, it's pretty impressive.

Its now only 6pts difference with 7 games to go.

[Urban Ranger]

Yeah, even Raul scored a goal

[Lawrence of Arabia]

And how many of those players who play in Europe started their careers or improved their careers in the MLS? Beasley and Donovan became the players they are in the MLS. Bocanegra started in the MLS, etc, etc.

who cares where they sstart their career? they all realized that the MLS will not make them better players, and thats why they left. its because the level of play abroad is a million times better.

Only barely more aware of the game. If you think the Women's World Cup, World Cup '94, and US games on ESPN has caused some groundswell of soccer support, then you are being delusion.

not at all. a significant amount of people are playing and watching soccer more now then 10 years ago.

Also because they play attack, attack, attack. Italy confirms their worst fears about soccer, the 0-0 or 1-0 games which are the soccer hater's stereotype of the game.

stereotypes are stereotypes, and they wont change because someone watches the epl. a 2 -1 score is still a boring game for them, lets be serious. anything less then 3 goals for one team is 'boring and low scoring' their strategy has nothing to do with people tuning in - people arnt even aware many times that there are different styles of play.

Oh please. One reason they go is the higher level of play, but kickball? If that was the reason, then why don't they go to play in the Guatemalan or Honduras leagues, or are those kickball as well?

yep, those leagues are also kickball, but with a twist: its one on one dribbling for 80 minutes, and no passing at all.

Like I said, the NASL tried that. They paid a TON for European players and ended up folding because the were losing money hand over foot. Europeans players will NOT come to the MLS until they are at the end of their career (Djorkaeff) or if they are paid some insane sum of money (Pele and Beckenbauer in the old NASL).

like i said, more people are aware now then then.

I don't see Wayne Rooney saying he wants to come to the US.

wayne rooney doesnt come here cuz the MLS sucks, and he would be regressing and not going forward. they could pay him millions and he still wouldnt come here because its below his level - its kickball.

You have to get fans first, so you can start paying players more, which will lead to the ability to get better players in Europe.

you dont get fans when you play garbage soccer. you only get fans when your product is a quality product. you need to invest in high end inputs if you want people to buy it. you expect people to settle for less, to be grabbed by ****ty soccer. that wont happen.

The MLS is just as good as the Guatamalan or Honduran leagues.

you're going to compare a league in a country of 300 million, to leagues in 3rd world countries with a few million people max? if we are only on par with these guys, then by your own admission, the mls blows.

[Urban Ranger]

You need to give it time to become more popular, though.

[alva]

@LoA

[MikeH]

I wish I could remember who the player was... but someone, after their first season in England was asked if they wanted to return to Italy and they basically said no, he wanted to stay in England because here the fans demand that every team tries to win every match. In Italy they often try and get a draw or whatever.

Anyway... we're getting better than we used to be. Players that can actually play football now.

I love watching Holland play. Certainly much rather watch them than Germany or Italy. From a pure football point of view I'll be supporting the nice football side against the 'tactical' one every time. That's why it was a travesty that the Greeks won Euro 2004. I think almost every non Greek in the world wanted Portugal to win.

MLS will keep improving.

[Maquiladora]

I certainly didnt want Portugal to win, and everyone I know didnt either after they knocked us out, good football or not.

[MikeH]

Really? I don't know anyone who held a grudge. It was disappointing but... against Greece? The most boring cynical team to make it to a European final since... well, Italy in 2000 but that's not the point.

And the Portuguese were so nice to us and such great hosts and we get on so well historically? Yeah, we lost but that happens in football we deserved to the way we crumbled after wonderkid got injured.

I bet you were supporting Brazil in the World Cup final despite them knocking us out.

[Imran Siddiqui]

who cares where they sstart their career? they all realized that the MLS will not make them better players, and thats why they left. its because the level of play abroad is a million times better.

The MLS developed them and set them up to take advantage of the oppertunities of the top leagues. The MLS DID make them better players than if it had never existed. Without the MLS, plenty of the players in Europe wouldn't have gotten the proper development. Like a lot of leagues in the new world, it's become a decent feeder.

not at all. a significant amount of people are playing and watching soccer more now then 10 years ago.

Not really. 10 years ago soccer was still the #1 participatory sport (youth, especially) and had been throughout the 80s. Those kids didn't stick with the game and they aren't sticking with it too much today either. I'd say it is far less than 'significant'. People who had an interest in soccer can now watch it on Fox Soccer Channel and Gol TV, but I don't see that many new fans.

Maybe you just never knew that there was a small group of soccer fans that existed 10 years ago, what with no real internet and hardly any digital TV channels. Though, I guarentee you, it is small. If it wasn't for the internet, people would have no idea that there was this small group of Americans who follow the game. Hell, I'd bet you'd have a very hard time getting 10% of Americans to tell you the name of a men's soccer player not named David Beckham.

Futhermore there are vastly more people that hate soccer than like it in the US. Just try to post a thread about 'football' and talk about soccer. Sava will be there quicker than you can say 'offsides' posting 5-10 pictures of Chicago Bears saying this is "real football" and you'll have plenty of other Americans slagging off soccer as well. And this is a board of the middle class yuppies where wactching soccer is most popular demographic-wise in the US.

stereotypes are stereotypes, and they wont change because someone watches the epl.

It will if they watch an exciting, thrilling, attacking match. I think you could change plenty of stereotypes by getting a person to watch an English match as opposed to an Italian match.

yep, those leagues are also kickball, but with a twist: its one on one dribbling for 80 minutes, and no passing at all.

... speaking of stereotypes...

wayne rooney doesnt come here cuz the MLS sucks, and he would be regressing and not going forward. they could pay him millions and he still wouldnt come here because its below his level - its kickball.

You offer him more than he could make in Europe, as well as offering other Euro players similar deals, and he'd come. A lot of it is money. You can't entice good players from Europe by offering them $500,000 a year, when they are used to $5, 10, etc million per year.

you dont get fans when you play garbage soccer. you only get fans when your product is a quality product.

You get fans when the game is entertaining. Americans think soccer is boring and nothing happens. You could plop the entire Italian Serie A in the US and it'd fail, because it'd only confirm the worst fears of the soccerphobe.

And how else do you recommend getting quality soccer except by gradually, year by year, trying to create quality young American players (which isn't a one year process, mind)? Until that time you have to engage the masses... play attacking.

Otherwise, in your grand scheme, you get boring soccer which also happens to be ugly, because the talent just isn't there in the MLS to play football on the level of Italy or Spain. It just isn't.

you're going to compare a league in a country of 300 million, to leagues in 3rd world countries with a few million people max? if we are only on par with these guys, then by your own admission, the mls blows.

They have also had a professional soccer league for waaaay longer than the US has. And the amount of soccer fans in the US (in raw numbers) is probably less than the soccer fans in either Guatamala and Honduras.

Soccer is a niche sport in the US. It hardly ever gets a mention on SportsCenter and the only soccer on network TV is MLS Opening Day and MLS Gold Cup, and a handful of World Cup matches (I believe it was about 5 matches total on ABC during WC '02, though I may be giving too high a number).

Where are you going to get all these talented players from to play a tactical style of game? Those players are in the next generation, and we can't afford to wait until they are born and come up through the ranks. We need to push for attacking soccer right now, so even if we don't have the best of players, we can still have exciting matches.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by MikeH
Really? I don't know anyone who held a grudge. It was disappointing but... against Greece? The most boring cynical team to make it to a European final since... well, Italy in 2000 but that's not the point.

And the Portuguese were so nice to us and such great hosts and we get on so well historically? Yeah, we lost but that happens in football we deserved to the way we crumbled after wonderkid got injured.

I bet you were supporting Brazil in the World Cup final despite them knocking us out.

Of course but only because they were playing someone we disliked even more, Turkey (semis) then Germany, had they played Holland or someone like that then I wouldnt have backed them.

I dont blame Greece for playing the way they did, I thought it unfair they beat the Czech's, since they were outstanding all tournament, but they deserved to win it against Portugal since Portugal had used their fair share of luck already. Italy playing the way they do on the other hand is worse, because they do have the talent to play like Brazil or France, but they stick to dull football all the time.

And of course they were such great hosts, they were taking all our money

[Imran Siddiqui]

they were taking all our money

Good capitalists