World Soccer Thread II

[Lawrence of Arabia]

No, it's correct. There are more US players in the lower leagues, because after they graduated, they went to the MLS, played a year or so and went to Europe (like Bobby Convey). The MLS has aided their development.

the reason there are more US players abroad is because there are more US players playing now in lower leagues, and their skill level when coming out of HS/ college is superior now then before, meaning they can make the jump. the MLS has nothing to do with it.

That's not whining unless they carry it over into the regular season... unless the fans think those players deserve the extra money (like Emmitt Smith in 1995).

whining is whining, whether its before, during, or after a season.

They are only owned by the team for a little while. Switzerland is a part of UEFA, which is under the mandates of the Bosman ruling. Therefore the contracts become unprotected if they are not giving a new contract in 3 years (or so).

yeah, and all the young stars are all under those contracts. and those are the players you want to acquire. young, cheap, fast, exciting, who can develop into real stars, and who can actually play soccer, and not kickball.

When you have no money, it is better to move slow and make modest gains before trying to hit the ball out of the park. Going for a risk and seeing the MLS collapse would be a catastrophic risk for US soccer. It would be worse than the NASL disaster.

scouting has nothing to do with catastrophic risks. in fact, if MLS teams did more, they could prolly save money and not spend $300,000 on Josh Wolfe. i mean really. and for the price of freddy adu, you could get two or three better rounded players who will have a larger impact right away. the only reason adu got such a large contract was cuz everyone around his blows, so the demand for actual good players goes up, and so does their price. if you surrond adu with better playeres, he wouldt get paid that much, and you could afford more better players, and have a better skill level in the league.

Cy Youngs and MVPs. You decided to play the race card to explain it away because you have no argument.

actually, I played that card because a) it hasnt got played yet, and this is america for crying out loud, where it needs to be played at every instance, and b) because its true, america is a racist country with people who think like John Rocker, and who dont vote for hispanic players because of their color.

[Imran Siddiqui]

the reason there are more US players abroad is because there are more US players playing now in lower leagues, and their skill level when coming out of HS/ college is superior now then before, meaning they can make the jump. the MLS has nothing to do with it.

No, the MLS has everything to do with it. It has allowed development of raw college players. There aren't many that just come out HS and college and go to European youth teams. You get the very few that can go directly to Europe and sometimes that doesn't work out (like Kirovski).

yeah, and all the young stars are all under those contracts. and those are the players you want to acquire. young, cheap, fast, exciting, who can develop into real stars, and who can actually play soccer, and not kickball.

What's wrong with getting 25 year olds as opposed to 20 year olds? 25 year olds aren't crap. But they aren't coming ove.

scouting has nothing to do with catastrophic risks.

Gotta pay scouts. To do a European scouting system, you need a HELL of a lot of scouts because what you are looking for are those who are good, but left behind by the big Euro squads. The ones who have fallen in the cracks.

Oh, as for Adu, a bit for you. In the U-17 World Cup he was dominant as a 15 year old. Are you saying that U-17s in Europe also blow? The reason Adu was paid so much was so someone like ManU wouldn't just come and sweep him up.

And Wolff deserves his contract in the MLS. About $100,00 was recieved through bonuses, which means he met goals set by his contract. Also he had a very good year last year (10 goals and 7 assists). He sells jersies as well, which is always part of the calculation.

actually, I played that card because a) it hasnt got played yet, and this is america for crying out loud, where it needs to be played at every instance, and b) because its true, america is a racist country with people who think like John Rocker, and who dont vote for hispanic players because of their color.

--

Though I think we should talk about the CL games, because other people seem to be not as interested in the thread.

Liverpool and Juve in the 2nd leg... who's going to win at Juventus?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

No, the MLS has everything to do with it. It has allowed development of raw college players. There aren't many that just come out HS and college and go to European youth teams. You get the very few that can go directly to Europe and sometimes that doesn't work out (like Kirovski).

speculation - you dont know if the MLS didnt exist if people wouldnt go abroad at the same rate. they might abroad at an even greater rate.

What's wrong with getting 25 year olds as opposed to 20 year olds? 25 year olds aren't crap. But they aren't coming ove.

because 20 year olds are cheaper, and have more potential upside. at 25, the majority of the gains a player is going to make have already been realized.

Gotta pay scouts. To do a European scouting system, you need a HELL of a lot of scouts because what you are looking for are those who are good, but left behind by the big Euro squads. The ones who have fallen in the cracks.

no you wouldnt need a hell of a lot of scouts, because you are looking at 2nd league players and you do it on a limited scale. its quite cheap to hire 2 or three scouts and send them out to a league and have them sit and watch games and practices. or you can send the coach and his assistants during the offseason of MLS.

Oh, as for Adu, a bit for you. In the U-17 World Cup he was dominant as a 15 year old. Are you saying that U-17s in Europe also blow? The reason Adu was paid so much was so someone like ManU wouldn't just come and sweep him up.

he was dominant cuz hes not 15, ok. hes at least 17, maybe 18. now that we got that out of the way, im saying that it doesnt matter why they spent so much on him, its better not to have him and to spend it on multiple players. one player cant make a league better, but a multitude of good players will. let him go to man u, adu by himself wont save the league for ****tiness.

And Wolff deserves his contract in the MLS. About $100,00 was recieved through bonuses, which means he met goals set by his contract. Also he had a very good year last year (10 goals and 7 assists). He sells jersies as well, which is always part of the calculation.

its a free market, you deserve whatever you get. thats not my point. my point is that you can get players who are willing to play for less (ruiz, european players) and you can a) save money, and b) get more good players and by doing a and b you can c) improve the level of the league, and d) hire scouts.

[notyoueither]

I'm pretty sure that Chelsea have the premiership all sown up unless Mourinho does something stupid like shoot five or six players.

What are the odds?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by notyoueither
What are the odds?

With the kind of money Boss Abramovich is pumping into them, pretty much unavoidable

[MikeH]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I'm pretty sure that Chelsea have the premiership all sown up unless Mourinho does something stupid like shoot five or six players.

What are the odds?

I would sort of doubt any bookmaker would accept bets on it... but just checked one online one. Chelsea are at 1.00, Arsenal at 21.00 and ManU at 101.00

[MikeH]

Anyway, getting away from MLS to some real football, what did people think of the disgraceful scenes in Milan and the Chelsea game?

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Locutus
With the kind of money Boss Abramovich is pumping into them, pretty much unavoidable

Im sure if Twente had that kind of money theyd be sitting around counting it.

Besides, money only buys you the talent, Chelsea have shown theyre not just a collection of expensive players, theyre a team.

[MikeH]

All credit to the manager for that.

The richest clubs in every league are the most successful. Man Utd have been 'buying the title' for years. Most clubs would love to have someone like Abramovich, and it benefits all the clubs they buy players from because the price seems to double if Chelsea are the buyers.

[MikeH]

Major boost for Sporting Lisbon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4437539.stm

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Im sure if Twente had that kind of money theyd be sitting around counting it.

Twente would never allow itself to get bought out like that...

Besides, money only buys you the talent, Chelsea have shown theyre not just a collection of expensive players, theyre a team.

Maybe... we'll see about that when the going gets tough...

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Locutus
Twente would never allow itself to get bought out like that...

I cant see the problem, its just the same as existing on less money, you still buy and pay players, except now you can afford a higher class of player. Lower league teams have the same feelings about premiership teams, basically green-eyed.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I cant see the problem, its just the same as existing on less money, you still buy and pay players, except now you can afford a higher class of player. Lower league teams have the same feelings about premiership teams, basically green-eyed.

I grew up with someone who actually plays for FC Twente now, and I have an uncle who's involved with the management. FC Twente is a club of the people, it's being run by fans and many of its players are actually from the area. What's it to me if someone spends a few hundred million to buy a team of primadonnas who I don't know and who don't know me and who only come to make money and win prizes, without love for the club and its history? I might as well be cheering for Ajax, Real Madrid or ManU then... A number of the current crop of players of FC Twente (including a few that aren't native to this area) have passed up on some very interesting offers from bigger teams because they want to succeed with our team. Others come back from bigger teams, this hasn't happened very recently for our team but Pi-Air van Hooijdonk is transfer-free at the end of the season and can play for almost any club he wants (he had concrete offers from big teams from England, Spain, Turkey and the Netherlands teams), but he chose to return to his old team NAC, out of love for that club. That's not something you'll see the like of Cech, Drogba or Makalele do easily for Chelsea if the money were to magically disappear somehow...

I love FC Twente because it's OUR team, and its accomplishments are OUR accomplishmets, fans and players together. I don't mind teams with money (I've always been a big fan of Barcelona and AC Milan they're two of the richest teams around), money certainly isn't evil, but I like teams to be owned by the people that make it tick, the fans. Teams that sell out like Chelsea are no longer of the fans, they're first and foremost the property of their owners. And if those owners are Russian oil maffia or American NFL bosses or whatever, and the players are multi-millionairs bought away from the best teams in Europe, you're not telling me they have the club's best interest at heart...

[Maquiladora]

Every team is of the fans, no matter how much money the club has, if the fans dont show up theres no reason for it to even exist anymore, even besides all the gate receipts.

So theyre all foreign players but theyre playing for the club you support, so you support them, you dont turn your back on them because they dont move their whole family into town, or get to know you personally.

It is afterall only their job and you shouldnt assume every player that moves to further their career is a "primadonna", especially as a football career can be cut short at any time, id be looking to make as much money as I could as quick as possible too, although if it were a small difference in pay id try to be as loyal as possible.

[reds4ever]

Bring it on you Russian rouble launderering mofo's