World Soccer Thread II

[MikeH]

Dan Marino!

And in a brilliant link we move from Marino to Mourinho!

He's been very funny again, firstly a big Eff You! to UEFA by sending his fitness coach and Forssell (who we were just talking about) to the press conference.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=330405&cc=5739

And also by having a go at pundits.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=330253&cc=5739

Mourinho told the Sunday Express: 'The best job in the world is to be a sacked coach. You get up at 10.30am, take breakfast, go for a jog followed by a sauna and a calm surf of sporting sites on the net.

'Lunch with friends, a siesta, a walk, a meeting with your adviser to see how the markets are doing, a visit to the bank to weigh up the interest rates, or to see if the salary the club is still paying you has cleared the account.

'Return home, have a great meal with the family. That still leaves you time to criticise people you don't know.

'There are so many coaches in this world who want to work but can't and there are those dashing blades who, through their quality and prestige, could work but don't want to, because life as a parasite fulfils them professionally and economically.

'Get to work you idle scoundrel! And if you don't want to, let others work in peace.'

[Maquiladora]

John Madden

I just saw an advert for Reebok with Alan Iverson (basketball), kinda pointless since no one knows him over here, likely they didnt want to pay anymore for someone known over here.

[Imran Siddiqui]

the only thing mls develops is kickball skill.

I don't think Beasley and other players who have used the MLS to catapault to Europe would say that at all.

98 was no setback. any exposure is a plus.

Yeah, finishing last place and being a laughing stock, even in our own country for a while, is no set back. NO, any exposure isn't a plus. For example Donovan coming back from Germany is not a plus of the US squad. It seems to indicate our best player is a *****.

then get owners with MMONEY. let anyone who wants a team to get one, dont have a closed market.

Yeah, because owners with money want to throw it down the drain in the short run by investing in MLS? Did you not notice where I said the league PAYS ESPN to broadcast its games. It's the only sports league in the US that does so. Also no team in the league, AFAIK, is making a profit.

And the closed market is a good idea, because the NASL example still looms large. The US market CANNOT have its own Yankees. It would kill the league faster than you can say... GOOOOOOOOAAAAALLL!

and you have josh wolfe who doesnt even start on the natioinal team making 400 Gs, and hes old. thats a waste of money. a young superleague swiss player would be willing to take 100gs easy, and hes twice the player josh wolfe is.

Really? You have any proof of that? Any Swiss players say they want to come to the US and would take $100k? I don't see it at all. So far you have Latin American players who see the opperunity, but I haven't see many young players from Europe say we'll play in the US for $10,000 - 20,000 a week.

And Josh Wolff actually has had some pretty good MLS seasons and his jersey is the one selling most, so its a good investment for the team.

the majority of the big name, role players are not american.

Got any numbers for that. At the very least, on every team I can name a star American player.

--

LoA seems to think he will wave his magic wand and have a Russian oil czar buy MLS.

Unfortunately, he already bought Chelsea.

MLS is doing ok as far as I can tell. It's doing a more sensible thing and growing slowly and steadily rather than spending a fortune and going bust.

EXACTLY! LoA seems to have no concept of the NASL where you had some teams spend a fortune, while others couldn't afford it and the whole league went down the tubes. They were able to get some great soccer players in the US by offering big money (LoA, money talks), but the franchises of the league was in debt since it signed Pele in the late 60s. It was unsustainable and died quickly in the early 80s.

MLS learned from that lesson and decided they weren't going to rise quick and peter out. Also they wanted to develop American players.

I think there's more americans interested in Football then europeans who are following basket, baseball or even football.

Personally, I couldn' name a single football or baseball player (is Kobe Bryant a football player?) and perhaps 2 or 3 basketball players(who might even retired by now).
Which is pretty for low someone who does follow sport in general to some extent.

I dunno. Outside of David Beckham (and that is mostly because he married Posh Spice and there was "Bend it Like Beckham" movie, most Americans couldn't name a single European or South American football player.

Though they probably have heard of Pele at some point.

[Maquiladora]

Chelsea through and Milan game called off because the keeper was hit by a flare. Will UEFA punish them properly for that, nope

[alva]

They will, I doubt Inter will be playing in Europe next season.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I don't think Beasley and other players who have used the MLS to catapault to Europe would say that at all.

they sure would, or they wouldnt have left.

Yeah, finishing last place and being a laughing stock, even in our own country for a while, is no set back. NO, any exposure isn't a plus. For example Donovan coming back from Germany is not a plus of the US squad. It seems to indicate our best player is a *****.

actually, donovon coming back is a plus - more marquee players, players who can actually play, thats what the MLS needs.

Really? You have any proof of that? Any Swiss players say they want to come to the US and would take $100k? I don't see it at all. So far you have Latin American players who see the opperunity, but I haven't see many young players from Europe say we'll play in the US for $10,000 - 20,000 a week.

of course they would, since thats what they are being paid in switzerland, or in Frances ligue 2.

Got any numbers for that. At the very least, on every team I can name a star American player.

and at the very least, I can name two non american stars on every team.

[Imran Siddiqui]

they sure would, or they wouldnt have left.

PLEASE! Beasley still speaks very well of MLS. The league developed their skills allowing them to get to big time European football. Without the MLS, there was little chance they'd make the trip across the pond. Look at how many American players played in Europe pre-MLS.

actually, donovon coming back is a plus - more marquee players, players who can actually play, thats what the MLS needs.

You need to think of PR a bit more. He looks like a whiney baby. If he came back at the end of Leverkusen's season that's one thing. Coming back after whining for 2 months? It makes the game look like its got a bunch of sissies.

of course they would, since thats what they are being paid in switzerland, or in Frances ligue 2.

If they are making that money in Switzerland and France's Ligue 2, why in the world would they come to the US for the same money. You avoided the question. Have there been any Swiss players who have said they want to come to the US and play for $100k a year?

and at the very least, I can name two non american stars on every team.

We can go on for this back and forth, but needless to say, I can name 2 American stars on every team. And, of course, the biggest star in the game is American (Bonds). The majority of star players are American.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by alva
They will, I doubt Inter will be playing in Europe next season.

That's what everyone said after the AS Roma incident...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Locutus
That's what everyone said after the AS Roma incident...

At the very least, I expect a game before an empty stadium in Inter's future.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

PLEASE! Beasley still speaks very well of MLS. The league developed their skills allowing them to get to big time European football. Without the MLS, there was little chance they'd make the trip across the pond. Look at how many American players played in Europe pre-MLS.

and i already tols you why no one went abroad before - cuz they were ****ty.

You need to think of PR a bit more. He looks like a whiney baby. If he came back at the end of Leverkusen's season that's one thing. Coming back after whining for 2 months? It makes the game look like its got a bunch of sissies.

. . . yeah right, the american public is used to whinning superstars, like baseball players, nba players and football players who sit out pre season, demand exorbitantly high salaries etc. the american public is used to whinning. people dont care. what they do care is that the league will actually show soccer at a high level.

If they are making that money in Switzerland and France's Ligue 2, why in the world would they come to the US for the same money. You avoided the question. Have there been any Swiss players who have said they want to come to the US and play for $100k a year?

and why wouldnt they? the money is the same, but they have the oppertunity of playing more (as they wont be playing behind bigger name players who get paid more) and they can grab the attention of bigger clubs easier when they get to start more often and get more play time.

We can go on for this back and forth, but needless to say, I can name 2 American stars on every team. And, of course, the biggest star in the game is American (Bonds). The majority of star players are American.

thats right, we can go back and forth, but if it was needless to say, then why did you say it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

and i already tols you why no one went abroad before - cuz they were ****ty.

Too ****ty to play in 2nd divisions? Come on... you know better than this. There were plenty of decent soccer players who could have succeeded in Europe if they had an MLS to develop. Without the MLS, we may never have gotten players like Eddie Johnson who has fought his way to being a very good striker. And who knows, he may be going to Europe soon. The MLS greatly helped in his development.

. . . yeah right, the american public is used to whinning superstars, like baseball players, nba players and football players who sit out pre season, demand exorbitantly high salaries etc. the american public is used to whinning. people dont care. what they do care is that the league will actually show soccer at a high level.

And what happens to the whining players? They are booed and backs are turned to them. Why do you think the NBA is having such a crisis now? Too many whiners have led to too many fans saying screw this.

And even if soccer was played at a high level, you'd have to convince Americans that soccer was worth watching in the first place, which is, in itself, a test. Even top class soccer isn't really watched that often (look at the World Cup ratings). You talk to American sports fans and most have the opinion that soccer is a boring game, whether in the MLS or Europe. Hell, I know a ton of sports fans and only 1 other follows soccer of any kid. Plenty of intelligent sports fans that follow football, baseball, etc, think soccer is a snoozer. They can name Freddy Adu and maybe (if you are lucky) they can tell you the name David Beckham.

and why wouldnt they? the money is the same, but they have the oppertunity of playing more (as they wont be playing behind bigger name players who get paid more) and they can grab the attention of bigger clubs easier when they get to start more often and get more play time.

You just said Swiss stars are making that money. If they are stars in the Swiss league, why aren't they getting playing time in that league again?

And I asked you (and I'll do it again) are there any Swiss players who are saying they want to go to the US?

thats right, we can go back and forth, but if it was needless to say, then why did you say it?

Because then you'd say I was avoiding the argument .

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Too ****ty to play in 2nd divisions? Come on... you know better than this. There were plenty of decent soccer players who could have succeeded in Europe if they had an MLS to develop. Without the MLS, we may never have gotten players like Eddie Johnson who has fought his way to being a very good striker. And who knows, he may be going to Europe soon. The MLS greatly helped in his development.

thats right, too ****ty to play in 2nd divisions. and the rest is just speculation.

And what happens to the whining players? They are booed and backs are turned to them. Why do you think the NBA is having such a crisis now? Too many whiners have led to too many fans saying screw this.

hahahahahah, yeah right. you see anyone booing ben roethlisburger after he held out for more? hell no, cuz he performed on the field. thats all people care about.

And even if soccer was played at a high level, you'd have to convince Americans that soccer was worth watching in the first place, which is, in itself, a test. Even top class soccer isn't really watched that often (look at the World Cup ratings). You talk to American sports fans and most have the opinion that soccer is a boring game, whether in the MLS or Europe. Hell, I know a ton of sports fans and only 1 other follows soccer of any kid. Plenty of intelligent sports fans that follow football, baseball, etc, think soccer is a snoozer. They can name Freddy Adu and maybe (if you are lucky) they can tell you the name David Beckham.

sure, but the ****ty style doesnt help - it hinders them from watching cuz they realize how crappy it is. no one watches WC, because no one watches MLS, because it blows chunks.

You just said Swiss stars are making that money. If they are stars in the Swiss league, why aren't they getting playing time in that league again?

And I asked you (and I'll do it again) are there any Swiss players who are saying they want to go to the US?

ill tell you why they dont play, because of politics. Servette FC plays all the old fogies instead of the young stars because they invested a lot in slow, old, unexciting players. thats why many of them arnt getting playing time. just like landon. the germans would rather start a german then have an american because they play in germany and its politics as usual.

And I asked you (and I'll do it again) are there any Swiss players who are saying they want to go to the US?

if someone asked the question, im sure some of them would say yes. its hard to know if no one asks them, since MLS doesnt have any scouts in europe looking for young talent.

Because then you'd say I was avoiding the argument

ah, so it was a catch-22. looks like i got ya anyways http://207.44.245.200/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Imran Siddiqui]

thats right, too ****ty to play in 2nd divisions. and the rest is just speculation.

Too ****ty to play 2nd divisions is the speculation there. Since MLS there's been more players in Europe. The simplest explanation is that MLS caused those players to develop more fully.

hahahahahah, yeah right. you see anyone booing ben roethlisburger after he held out for more? hell no, cuz he performed on the field. thats all people care about.

How is 'holding out for more' being whining? It's being paid what you think you are worth. Whining is saying I'm not playing enough, I want to go home.

ill tell you why they dont play, because of politics.

If they are so good, then why don't they play in the 2nd leagues?

Oh, and its not Augenthaler's fault if whenever Landon plays, he's looks like crap. And at this stage, Ponte is probably better than Donovan.

if someone asked the question, im sure some of them would say yes. its hard to know if no one asks them, since MLS doesnt have any scouts in europe looking for young talent.

Speaking of speculation. As for the scouts in Europe... requires money again. The MLS doesn't particularly have many scouts in Latin America. A lot of the players who came to the MLS from that area weren't scouted, but made the move themselves.

looks like i got ya anyways

Nope, because I won. If you look at the big awards (MVP and Cy Young) last year you had 2 Americans and 2 non-Americans. But the year before you had 4 Americans winning and before that 3 Americans.

Most of the big names in baseball are Americans.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Too ****ty to play 2nd divisions is the speculation there. Since MLS there's been more players in Europe. The simplest explanation is that MLS caused those players to develop more fully.

sure its the simplest, but its also incorrect. the reason there are more US players abroad is because there are more US players playing now in lower leagues, and their skill level when coming out of HS/ college is superior now then before, meaning they can make the jump.

How is 'holding out for more' being whining? It's being paid what you think you are worth. Whining is saying I'm not playing enough, I want to go home.

its whinning because instead of getting paid 10 million a year, they wanna get paid 12 million, and they ***** about it until they get it.

If they are so good, then why don't they play in the 2nd leagues?

Oh, and its not Augenthaler's fault if whenever Landon plays, he's looks like crap. And at this stage, Ponte is probably better than Donovan.

they dont have a choice, they are owned by the team. the team wont sell them to someone where they will get less money. and it is augenthalers fault because he doesnt play landon enough. its a self fulfilling prophecy. first you never play him, and then you wonder why he sucks when you put him in. hmmmmm

Speaking of speculation. As for the scouts in Europe... requires money again. The MLS doesn't particularly have many scouts in Latin America. A lot of the players who came to the MLS from that area weren't scouted, but made the move themselves.

well, ya gotta invest if you wanna get good. you need to put money up front to get a better product. take a risk. jeeez.

If you look at the big awards (MVP and Cy Young) last year you had 2 Americans and 2 non-Americans. But the year before you had 4 Americans winning and before that 3 Americans.

prolly has something to do with racism. thats not my dept, but you can call my buddy the reverend al sharpton. im sure he can explain it to you. and i agree totally with hiim in this respect.

Most of the big names in baseball are Americans.

prove it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

sure its the simplest, but its also incorrect. the reason there are more US players abroad is because there are more US players playing now in lower leagues, and their skill level when coming out of HS/ college is superior now then before, meaning they can make the jump.

No, it's correct. There are more US players in the lower leagues, because after they graduated, they went to the MLS, played a year or so and went to Europe (like Bobby Convey). The MLS has aided their development.

its whinning because instead of getting paid 10 million a year, they wanna get paid 12 million, and they ***** about it until they get it.

That's not whining unless they carry it over into the regular season... unless the fans think those players deserve the extra money (like Emmitt Smith in 1995).

they dont have a choice, they are owned by the team. the team wont sell them to someone where they will get less money. and it is augenthalers fault because he doesnt play landon enough. its a self fulfilling prophecy. first you never play him, and then you wonder why he sucks when you put him in. hmmmmm

They are only owned by the team for a little while. Switzerland is a part of UEFA, which is under the mandates of the Bosman ruling. Therefore the contracts become unprotected if they are not giving a new contract in 3 years (or so).

And Landon played as a starter or sub in 70% of the games while he was there for those 2 months. And, after all, he was there for 2 months! He couldn't wait it out until the end of the season?

well, ya gotta invest if you wanna get good. you need to put money up front to get a better product. take a risk. jeeez.

When you have no money, it is better to move slow and make modest gains before trying to hit the ball out of the park. Going for a risk and seeing the MLS collapse would be a catastrophic risk for US soccer. It would be worse than the NASL disaster.

prove it.

Cy Youngs and MVPs. You decided to play the race card to explain it away because you have no argument.

The biggest name in the game is, without a doubt, Barry Bonds. Derek Jeter is probably the second biggest name. A-Rod is right up there as well. I'm sure more people know who Ken Griffey, Jr. is than Vlad Guerrero. Then again, they know Ichiro more than Vlad. Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens are the best known pitchers in the game.

Also the majority of the players in the 2004 All Star Game were Americans, though they were represented more on the pitching side of things.

The proof is right in front of you, you just don't want to acknowlege it.