Do you support grade/discipline based segregation in schools ?

[aneeshm]

Simple question . Do you support the breaking up of students into batches based on grades and discipline ? Note that I'm not talking about the existing classes for "gifted" and "slow" learners , I'm talking about seperation ( segregation is a word with dirty associations , I used it only to attract more people to the thread ) based on grade averages and discipline .

For example , anyone with a relatively clean disciplinary record ( say for the past three months ) and whose grades are the top 33 % ( say again over the past six months , or one year ) gets to sit in a seperate class , then the next 33 % and then the next 33 % .

This serves to seperate the wheat from the chaff , and the students who are committed to studies get to study with ( comparatively ) similar people , and also do not have to deal with disruptive idiots who are there only because the state demands it .

I can vouch for this system's efficacy , not because it has been implemented in our school ( it hasn't ) , but because , due to some wierd coincidence , my current classmates are mostly of the studious type , and the effect on my grades has bee a nice increase of ten to fifteen percent .

What do you say to this ?

[Barinthus]

Aneeshm, I wholeheartly agree with this idea.

People can argue until they are blue in face about how this would cause some kids to develop lower self-esteem or whatever, I do not care. Screw them, if they don't have the right attitude toward their own education, why should kids who cares about their education have to put up with them?

I've seen students with huge potential doing poor academically and even getting themselves into trouble due to their lack of self-discipline. While it's important to be able to develop one's skills to focus on what's truly important, I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting them into an environment in which learning is encouraged by one's peers.

[MarkG]

school is not just about geting knowledge. realising that life is full of "disruptive idiots" (of any kind) is a very valuable leasson as well

[Barinthus]

Shrug. This can be done by putting those idiots into a huge classroom surrounded by one way mirrors... only can see inside from outside. Then good kids can observe this classroom for their advanced psychology course or whatever.

[aneeshm]

@MarkG

Learning how a good system can circumvent and neutralise the effect the "disruptive idiots" have on you is an even more valuable one .

AFAIK , "disruptive idiots" don't usually last long in any white-collar jobs , unless the disruptivity is beaten out of them .

[MarkG]

if you say so

but dont you have private schools for things like good-grades-filtering?

[Urban Ranger]

I disgree. Education is not about producing cogs for companies, it is about bring out the full potentials in each and every individual.

It is better to find out why these "disruptive idiots" are disrupting, instead of banishing them to a downward spiral.

[Kropotkin]

Sure, great idea. Brand them as soon as possible and reduce their chances of improving themselves. Concentrating all the kids with some diciplinary problems is probably the best way of ensuring that none of them will ever learn good behavior or change. Why don't you just throw them in prison?

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I disgree. Education is not about producing cogs for companies, it is about bring out the full potentials in each and every individual.

It is better to find out why these "disruptive idiots" are disrupting, instead of banishing them to a downward spiral.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

i was disruptive but i always scored well (in grade school) where would i go?

[Dis]

to this idea

to low self esteem

[Dis]

Originally posted by MarkG
school is not just about geting knowledge. realising that life is full of "disruptive idiots" (of any kind) is a very valuable leasson as well

this isn't a very good argument imho.

Are there disruptive idiots at your work? Most people with "upper" jobs can get their own office or lab space. You aren't going to find fast food workers there disrupting your work. Even myself, I have a "lower" job, but I rarely have to deal with disruptive people (just bad drivers).

[Dis]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Sure, great idea. Brand them as soon as possible and reduce their chances of improving themselves. Concentrating all the kids with some diciplinary problems is probably the best way of ensuring that none of them will ever learn good behavior or change. Why don't you just throw them in prison?

yes because the system we have been doing in the U.S. is working so well...

Nobody improves themselves. Some kids are just losers.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I disgree. Education is not about producing cogs for companies, it is about bring out the full potentials in each and every individual.

It is better to find out why these "disruptive idiots" are disrupting, instead of banishing them to a downward spiral.

The classical education that has been forgotten in this day and age.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by Dissident


yes because the system we have been doing in the U.S. is working so well...

Nobody improves themselves. Some kids are just losers.

Yes, having the school decide for you if you're a loser or not is surely the best way to go!