At what point did German defeat in WW2 become inevitable?

[Dr Strangelove]

I believe that Germant sealed it's fate during Barbarosa when Hitler diverted forces from Army Group Center to support Army Group South's drive on Kiev. Had these forces remained with Army Group Center the Germans might have taken Moscow which would have been a critical blow to Soviet morale and the Soviet rail supply system.

Another crucial mistake was Hitler's failure to provide for winterization of his eastern front troops and their equipment in 1941. This failure resulted in a loss of a huge amount of equipment and of veteran troops.

[chequita guevara]

Dec. 8, 1941, when Germany declared war on the U.S. it was all over but for the cleaning up.

[Fake Boris]

Hard to answer, of course. However, when you look at the situation in June 1940, pretty much everyone agrees that Germany had a reasonable shot at victory.

Even in spring 1942, they weren't done yet, though the victory was becoming more and more unsure - i.e. the outcome would also depend on how Japan fared against America.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Dec. 8, 1941, when Germany declared war on the U.S. it was all over but for the cleaning up.

That would be surprising. What would America have done against a Germany that has defeated the USSR?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Smiley
Trying to conquer the world never works, especially not in the long run; the war was lost when it begun.

The downfall of every regime begins at it's conception.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
That would be surprising. What would America have done against a Germany that has defeated the USSR?

Once the U.S. was in the war, the USSR wasn't gong to be defeated. It was only a possiblity before the U.S industrial base was supporting the Soviets.

[Fake Boris]

Things were getting hot, sure, but no one would say that a Soviet defeat in 42 was unachievable.

Also the convoys to Murmansk were pretty much being decimated, so it took a while before they paid off.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Things were getting hot, sure, but no one would say that a Soviet defeat in 42 was unachievable.

I would. The Soviets just would have fallen back to the Urals and kept fighting. The Germans would have been as bogged down in occupying Russia as we are in Iraq. As long as our supplies kept the USSR at war, Germany was going to lose.

[Saras]

What che said; if anyone has a viable non-NBC strategy of how to subjugate and control Russia, please let me know

[chequita guevara]

OMFG!11! Saras agreed with me. It's the last sign of the Apocalypse!

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
OMFG!11! Saras agreed with me. It's the last sign of the Apocalypse!

It's not the first time; I remember we agreed in one recipe thread

[chequita guevara]

Yes, but this is about the USSR.

[Proteus_MST]

I agree with Dr. Strangelove and Alexanders Horse.
To seize Moscow at this time and capture the Oli wells at another, later time, would have gotten the germans an edge.

But there was another factor which also could have lead to a success in Russia:
If Germany wouldn´t have been forced to help the italian allies in Africa, all those ressources which went to the Afrikakorps (as well as their commander, Rommel) could have been used for the conquest of russia, probably giving the german forces the power to capture moscow and the oil wells at the same time.

With Russia conquered probably not even the USA would have been able to turn the tide of war in europe.
(especially if germany then would have been able to direct the whole might of its military machinery against GB)

And probably, as in the film "Vaterland" we would have the two blocks USA and Germany in some kind of cold war.

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yes, but this is about the USSR.

Yes, but I'm also a realist, okay?

[Dinner]

When they failed to knock out the UK before invading the Soviets the long term chances went way down because of having to fight a two front (three if Africa is counted) war. The real end of all hopes of victory was the failure to take Moscow and Stalingrad. After that there was no hope for victory and instead the goal was to inflect large casualties on the allies attempting to negotiate an armistice. If the plot to kill Hitler had succeeded before D-Day it seems semi-plausible peace could have been negotiated with the western allies.

Ideally for the Germans Hitler should have died a week or two before the invasion of Poland then they would have got to keep the territorial gains he made but war still could have been averted. If that had happened then Hitler would likely be remembered as one of the great Chancellors in German history.