At what point did German defeat in WW2 become inevitable?

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


That is another historically impossible scenario. Japan would attack the US, that's just a question of when.

Can't disagree with that.

[Dis]

when they the U.K. declared war on them.

duh'.

People overrate the germans success. Sure they can beat up on small countries like Poland. But when faced with real countries such as England. They had no chance at all. Sure they had initial success against England. But it was obvious they had no chance of conquering them.

Germany was doomed as soon as Hitler took power. It was impossible for them to win the war the way Hitler wanted to do it.

[Shogun Gunner]

The best defender the Brits had was the channel.

Sure, the air force was decent -- at least the Spitfires and Hurricanes. But the Germans could match those planes with the ME-109 and pilots of equivilant skill.

If you connect England to the main continent and disconnect France -- it's France that survives the German attack and England falls to the German 1940 invasion.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
The best defender the Brits had was the channel.

Sure, the air force was decent -- at least the Spitfires and Hurricanes. But the Germans could match those planes with the ME-109 and pilots of equivilant skill.

If you connect England to the main continent and disconnect France -- it's France that survives the German attack and England falls to the German 1940 invasion.

I won't dispute that.

But the channel is there. That's what shaped England into the country it is today. So we have to include it into the argument.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
If you connect England to the main continent and disconnect France -- it's France that survives the German attack and England falls to the German 1940 invasion.

Yeah, but then Wellington would have nearly conquered the continent of Europe save for Napoleon's tenacious opposition eventually bringing him to bay. Meanwhile, and much much worse, the Spanish assume the position of the Scottish, meaning that the entire latin American community would speak Scottish, not Spanish. Can you possibly imagine the utter wrongness of that? Imagine the "Macarena" sung with a thick Scottish brogue.....OCK! MACKARRRENA! Imagine "La Vida Loco", "Felice Navidad" or "Des Colores" accompanied by bagpipes.

No, whatever you do, do not switch the positions of France and England.

[Footie Mad]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

Meanwhile, and much much worse, the Spanish assume the position of the Scottish, meaning that the entire latin American community would speak Scottish, not Spanish. Can you possibly imagine the utter wrongness of that? Imagine the "Macarena" sung with a thick Scottish brogue.....OCK! MACKARRRENA! Imagine "La Vida Loco", or "Des Colores" accompanied by bagpipes.

No, whatever you do, do not switch the positions of France and England.

[chequita guevara]

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Smiley
Trying to conquer the world never works, especially not in the long run; the war was lost when it begun.

I've conquered world in EU2!!

[Heresson]

Originally posted by techumseh
The Nazi's were, well, Nazis. So they couldn't very well be expected to behave like normal invaders so that the Russians would like them. They came into the Soviet Union to loot, pillage, kill the Jews and erradicate Communism. I doubt they could have done much to make themselves popular without ceasing to be Nazi's.

Many disliked communism... Many disliked Jews...
And many (Latvians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians) actually supported Germans.

[techumseh]

And the Germans did encourage collaboration. Some Ukrainian and Baltic citizens actively participated in the massacre of the Jews. And the Germans formed SS units from the fascist elements amoung these populations as well.

But the basic nature of the invasion didn't and couldn't change.

[Straybow]

Battle of Britain. When Britain held firm the Allies had a nearby base of operations. If Britain had capitulated Vichy-style Germany would've remained unopposed in the West and in Africa, and probably would've secured rights to ME oil through Britain.

Then maybe Germany could've fought the Soviets to a standstill and redrawn the border somewhere near the Don or Volga. WW2 would be over, with Germany the victor in Europe. The US would concentrate on Japan and emerge the victor in the Pacific.

Then the Cold War would be between Germany and the US-Britain, with the Soviets playing catch-up. At some point they would form an alliance of convenience against Germany and WW3 would play out with results similar to WW2.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Dec. 8, 1941, when Germany declared war on the U.S. it was all over but for the cleaning up.

[VetLegion]

I agree with Trip. The war seems to have been won with production facilities, more than anything else.

[Kuciwalker]

The US just had too many IPCs... they need to fix that in the next edition

[Jon Shafer]

Yeah, can't have things imbalanced, makes for bad gameplay.