Why the American media are so pathologically anti-Russian

[Serb]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Serb is having difficulty with the English language. Nationalization does not mean confiscation. We refer to the nationalization of the British coal industry by the Atlee govt for example, but that was quite legal.

Perhaps, but from dictionary.com:

Nationalization - A government takeover of private property or operations. The government may or may not compensate the property owners.

I insist that in Yukos's case, a company controlled by the government of Russian Federation BOUGHT on competitive basis (auction) assets of Yukos. It was an absolutely legal purchase, not a takeover with or without a compensation (like it is in case of your beloved pro-western, democratic, liberal, ***** you've installd in Ukraine).

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Serb

Does absolutely LEGAL purchase at an AUCTION equals to NATIONALIZATION?

When only one company is seriously allowed to bid? Yes.

[Saras]

Serb, you are defending THAT auction?

[Dinner]

And why you didn't comment the first order of your Ukranian pro-western, democratic, liberal, f*cking pet, about nationalization of Krivorozhstal?

I oppose most nationalizations on the grounds that they are normally bad for business but some are ok as long as fair market value is paid. Now what makes the nationalization of a bankrupt Ukrainian steel company which was facing bankruptcy different from the forced government take over of one of the larger oil companies in the world. Hmmm, let me think..

I'd like to see the steel plant reprivatized but in the big picture one steel plant isn't jack cheese. One of the world's largest oil producers is a big factor though. Orders of magnitude bigger.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Serb

Perhaps, but from dictionary.com:

Nationalization - A government takeover of private property or operations. The government may or may not compensate the property owners.

I insist that in Yukos's case, a company controlled by the government of Russian Federation BOUGHT on competitive basis (auction) assets of Yukos. It was an absolutely legal purchase, not a takeover with or without a compensation (like it is in case of your beloved pro-western, democratic, liberal, ***** you've installd in Ukraine).

I think "takeover" to dictionary.com includes legal purchase, not just seizure. Otherwise dictionary is simply wrong.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


Serb, you not knowing the exact location of 150'000 graves in SIBERIA (!!!) doens't mean they're not there. It's a lame argument, get a better one.

Yeah, sure the argument "I don't know where, but they should be there" is much better.
The rule is simple and accepted all around the world-
when you charge someone you have to back up your charges with evidences. If you don't have evidences you may charge as long as you wish, it doesn't make anyone guilty.

There's plenty of SERIOUS historical and archaeologica research been done and still is being done, that has and will continue to provide HARD evidence,

Show me results of this SERIOUS historical and archaeologica research. SHOW ME this HARD EVIDENCE. Show me those goddamn Soviet death camps.
During recent 15 years all kinds of human right organization were digin for evidences in Omsk. What did they found? About 10 000 graves and actually they have no idea how many of those graves could be a graves of "Stalin's victims".

not this idealogically charged revisionist crap you linked to.

This "idealogically charged revisionist crap" based on sense of logic and SOVIET ARCHIEVES that were openned by Gorbachev. Books like Harvest of Sorrow or any of Solzhenicin's sh!t are based on hell knows what kind of crap pulled out of hell knows whose arses. Such books are fairytales. I believe to documents.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Oerdin


When only one company is seriously allowed to bid? Yes.

There was more than one company and you know this.

[Dinner]

Serb, why weren't foreign companies allowed to bid on Yukos? We both know Gazprom is the only Russian company that can afford to buy Yukos. Sure, they used shell companies and word games but there was really only one bidder so I wouldn't call that a fair auction.

[Saras]

Oh and that steel privatisation in ukraine was one of the most blatant displays of corruption, so no wonder it is being reversed... Let's see if I can find an Economist article on it...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Serb, why weren't foreign companies allowed to bid on Yukos? We both know Gazprom is the only Russian company that can afford to buy Yukos. Sure, they used shell companies and word games but there was really only one bidder so I wouldn't call that a fair auction.

Gazprom couldn't afford to buy Yukos (and by it were some assets of Yukos, not entire company, iirc) European banks gave money for this purchase. Without bank credit provided by Euros Gazprom would never buy it.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
Oh and that steel privatisation in ukraine was one of the most blatant displays of corruption, so no wonder it is being reversed... Let's see if I can find an Economist article on it...

And privatization in Russia (like Yukos or Sibneft) during Yeltsin's rule was a shining example of fair play, I guess?
Still Russian government preffer to legaly buy property that was stolen from it during Yeltsin's privatization, and your western media cries a river, while your beloved pro-western, democratic, liberal Ukraninan whore just says -" hey we take it back" and nobody cares about that.

****ing hypocrites.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb

Yeah, sure the argument "I don't know where, but they should be there" is much better.
The rule is simple and accepted all around the world-
when you charge someone you have to back up your charges with evidences. If you don't have evidences you may charge as long as you wish, it doesn't make anyone guilty.

I was not making that argument, I was debating the one you made.

Show me results of this SERIOUS historical and archaeologica research. SHOW ME this HARD EVIDENCE.

https://www.genocid.lt

Show me those goddamn Soviet death camps.

oh, and if fail to do so, ergo, they were not there. Real smart.

During recent 15 years all kinds of human right organization were digin for evidences in Omsk. What did they found? About 10 000 graves and actually they have no idea how many of those graves could be a graves of "Stalin's victims".

I missed the news when all of Siberia save Omsk was teleported to your arse.

This "idealogically charged revisionist crap" based on sense of logic and SOVIET ARCHIEVES that were openned by Gorbachev.

I would like to see a list of references for that article please.

Books like Harvest of Sorrow or any of Solzhenicin's sh!t are based on hell knows what kind of crap pulled out of hell knows whose arses. Such books are fairytales. I believe to documents.

What else can you say? Your wordview hinges on the denial of what your country has done wrong...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
Serb, you are defending THAT auction?

Why should I? It was absolutely legal market action. I would hang the bastards and took it back for free, but fortunatelly for them Putin is not me.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb



And privatization in Russia (like Yukos or Sibneft) during Yeltsin's rule was a shining example of fair play, I guess?

who said so? Of course NOT, but making ONE company a scapegoat is wrong. Volodia should be consistent and seek to reverse bad privatisation (if that's what he's REALLY doing) and not cook up "tax charges" against one company, which, (oh the surprise) happened to be supporting an opposing political party.

edit - typos

[Saras]

I'm starting to like cut and pasta Berzerker style