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Tartessos: help me (us) build a fun scn...

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  • #46
    Where can i find the map?

    i volunteer to make any needed modifications...
    Indifference is Bliss

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    • #47
      Are you guys still working on this? Update pleez!

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      • #48
        Both juan and I have been very busy lately, but have no fear, we haven't given up on this. We are working on the tech tree right now, a modified one from Kull's ancient empires scenario, and we would welcome any ideas and sugestions you guys would care to give us.

        ------------------
        All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.
        I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
        i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

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        • #49
          As Chris have perfectly summed up, we haven't been anle to work very much on the scn lately, but we haven't given up, since we think we can really do a fun and interesting scn about this. Now that I have some time, I will reply to all your questions. Sorry for not doing this before.

          Masis,

          I also wondered how the Tartessian units should look like. But I happened to find a very interesting book (in Spanish) about the Ibers, explaining everything about Turdetan warriors. The Turdetans were considered the heirs of Tartessian culture by Schulten, and as our goal with this scn is to depict Schulten's theories, we'll also have it that Turdetans inherited their arms and armors from the Tartessian (in fact, Turdetan warriors clads are different from those used by other Iberian tribes in the Eastern Peninsula).

          According to my references, Iberian warriors used small round shields (called caetra), made of wood and leather. They also used the dreaded curved swords known as falcata by the Romans. As for armors, they wore a simple round-shaped plate to protect their chest. I've made some further research about this, I've read that archeologists have found plates of this kind and rounded shields from the 9th, 8th and 7th century b.C., so we can't go wrong with this. It seems that also long swords of the same period have been found. You can take a look here if you're interested, unfortunately the link is in Spanish:
          http://argantonio.elsendero.es/index2.html

          About the unit icons that we will use, I think that I end up drawing them myself. Drawing my own units is, as most of you know, the thing I like the most about Civ2.


          Henrik,

          don't worry, we'll post our progress here. We have made Italy/Eastern France a separate continent from Spain/Western France. Also, passing through the Pyrenees will prove almost impossible. I think we'll most likely use your continent idea for the city of Tartessos too.

          HsFB,

          Thanks for your help offer, I think we don't need to make further modifications to the map, apart from clearing some forests in order to place cities. If you're interested in seeing the map, however, I'll mail it to you.

          Finally,

          would anyone be willing to help us with the tech tree? We already have some ideas, but unfortunately we are lacking time, so, once again, both Chris and I would greatly appreciate any help.



          "An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike"
          - Spiro T. Agnew

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          • #50
            Just out of curiousity which terrain types are you going to use?
            Mountain passes (you could make them take 2/3 of a move, etc, etc)? Wooded hills that can be changed to barren hills? Will there be impassables?
            No Fighting here, this is the war room!

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            • #51
              To be sincere, I don't think that we need to slow down unit movement even more. When you have to pass through two mountain suqares, four hill squares and nine forests squares with movement 1 units you have enough of it, if you know what I mean.

              Same goes for impassable terrains. I don't think we really need them in this kind of game.

              Maybe Chris has a different opinion though.

              Regarding terrain types, I think we'll get along with the basic ones (maybe a special tin square). What we are sure to have is litrally truckloads of Forests (as in the actual Ancient Spain), so it would be very useful and interesting having the forest squares quickly transformed into grassland or plains.
              "An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike"
              - Spiro T. Agnew

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              • #52
                I agree with Fiera on this (the terrain thing). The map is rather large, so slowing units will not be needed. As Juan said, the tech tree is where we need to do the most work. I have been so busy of late, I haven't had time to properly devote to this project. But my work is starting to clear, so I soon can devote much more time to it.

                ------------------
                All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.
                [This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited April 13, 2001).]
                I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
                i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well, tech trees are something I actually enjoy making, so perhaps I should volunteer my services here.

                  edit; just re-read the thread from the beginning and saw your time frame. The period you want is the late Iron Age. Are Italian cultures going to be present in the scenario? I'm not clear on where the geographic boundaries fall. Is it going to be primarily an Iberian scen, or more expansive than that?

                  Salutations,
                  Exile
                  [This message has been edited by Exile (edited April 13, 2001).]
                  Lost in America.
                  "a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
                  "or a very good liar." --Stefu
                  "Jesus" avatars created by Mercator and Laszlo.

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                  • #54
                    quote:

                    Originally posted by Exile on 04-13-2001 07:41 PM
                    Well, tech trees are something I actually enjoy making, so perhaps I should volunteer my services here.


                    Well, that would be great, I'm looking forward to it!

                    quote:

                    I'm not clear on where the geographic boundaries fall. Is it going to be primarily an Iberian scen, or more expansive than that?


                    We plan to have the Etruscans there as well. You can see a radar picture of the map here:
                    http://www.geocities.com/fiera_com/map.jpg

                    (If the link doesn't appear to work, copy and paste the URL directly into your browser navigation box).
                    "An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike"
                    - Spiro T. Agnew

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                    • #55
                      It's fine with me, Exile. The only goal here is to make a fun scenario that people will want to play.

                      ------------------
                      All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.
                      I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
                      i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Ok, give me until monday, and I'll see what kind of a tech tree I can come up with. Chris' comment about "borrowing" some tech ideas from Kull's scenarios are well-taken. His tech trees are very close to the mark. If I can think of anything that Kull left out, I'll include it. Must do some reading now.

                        Salutations,
                        Exile
                        Lost in America.
                        "a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
                        "or a very good liar." --Stefu
                        "Jesus" avatars created by Mercator and Laszlo.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          That's great to hear!

                          I thought I'd let you know, before you start working on it, that Chris and I had already agrred that the Tartessos tech tree should be more simple than Kull's one for most issues. I don't really see the need of having techs such as "The Beak" or "The sail", which are too specific.

                          Regarding ships, I think I'll better post here for you what I emailed Chris a few weeks ago:

                          quote:

                          You'll probably want to check this site out:
                          http://phoenicia.org/ships.html

                          It has some pretty ancient ships images, BTW.

                          Given what I read there, I think taht there should be three types of war galleys: Pentakonters, Biremes and, at the end of the tech tree, Triremes. Historically, both the Phoenicians and Greeks had Biremes at the time our scn starts, but I guess we can give them just the ability of building Pentakonters and let them research for better ships.


                          Apart from the three warship types, there could be a simple type of cargo ship, available just with Map Making or anything of the sort, so there are four different ships in the game, which is to say four different tech steps in naval transport/warfare. Do you find this well balanced for game play? That's the amount of research I'd like to see in the game, maybe you could use it as a guide for teh other aspects of the game.

                          Thanks again for your interest!
                          "An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike"
                          - Spiro T. Agnew

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                          • #58
                            Well, after some reading, I've come up with some suggestions. Firstly, my sources indicate that the period you're covering is at the cusp of the Bronze Age/Iron Age. It was apparently just at this time, in this region, that the transition from bronze weaponry to iron weaponry occurred. I would think about making that transition an essential part of the scenario. One way to do this would be to give bronze-armed troops 1 hit point and iron-armed troops 2. I have yet to find any substantial information on the ancient kingdom of Tartessos. The Penguin Atlas of Ancient History shows where it was and who was nearby, but doesn't tell me anything about force composition, culture, economy, or politics. I'm consulting other sources, of a more military history type, now. What I have discovered is that this region was contested during this period by; Greeks, Phoenicians, Etruscans, Celts. And of course there were "native" elements; the Numidian kingdoms in north Africa and the Iberians. Apparently, the Iberian penninsula was the source for mineral wealth during this period. My sources say that gold, tin, copper, lead, and especially silver were all abundant and sought after. Given that, I would certainly think about incorporating this idea of the western Mediterranean's "mineral storehouse" idea into the scenario. About the ships; my sources say that only the Greeks used the pentakonter-type warships as trading vessels; all the others apparently used more mundane craft for general purposes. The beginning of the period is, however, characterized by the sharp sea battle off Alalia on Corsica between the Phocian Greeks and the Etruscans.

                            Still reading.

                            Salutations,
                            Exile
                            Lost in America.
                            "a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
                            "or a very good liar." --Stefu
                            "Jesus" avatars created by Mercator and Laszlo.

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                            • #59
                              Wasn't Cyprus a big source of copper those days?
                              Then again Cyprus isn't included on the map so that might not matter
                              No Fighting here, this is the war room!

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                              • #60
                                quote:

                                Originally posted by Fiera on 04-13-2001 02:19 PM
                                would anyone be willing to help us with the tech tree? We already have some ideas, but unfortunately we are lacking time, so, once again, both Chris and I would greatly appreciate any help.




                                King Gargoris taught his people how to collect honey.
                                King Habis (Gargoris' son) taught them to use the plough.
                                Diodoro said Curetes (Tartessians?) discovered the bow, the sword, the helmet, cattle.
                                http://www.tarifaweb.com/cultura/alj...num19/art3.htm http://www1.dragonet.es/users/d1273/estrella.htm

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