Second Front Feedback

[Captain Nemo]

Xin Ju:
Don't research anything! The techs are all given by events. Cash on the other hand is great. Speedbuilding units in English cities that cannot finish them in one turn is a good idea as is building USMV repair facilities in France to repair damaged units. As new units arrive in the next turns they will start taking the production away from the British cities so ultimately those units should be relocated and re-homed in French cities... 4 Fuel-trucks per turn should fill the Fuel depots in French cities.

Do Fuel convoys deliver more if the sending city is big or the receiving city is big? I thought it was 5 rows in the receiving city no matter how big the city?

The two types of shells are designed to target different types of units. With this scenario I think I have established that missile attacks are ONLY controlled by the relative cost of the units.
The 15cm and 210mm shells target different cost units. The 15cm WILL go after LCVPs when you put some of the more expensive units in them. The LCTs are so expensive they get attacked whether full or empty. Later in the game (I will give this away, you can look up the date in any WWII history book) the Germans start attacking the British cities with V-1s and they actually do attack the cities which I never was able to do with my Desert Storm scenario (SCUDs against Patriots) because I didn't understand the mechanics of missile attacks.

Regarding the missiles being blocked, watch out. The AI cheats and will move missiles through walls of planes. I tried to surround a ship with a chain of planes leaving no openings but leaving one square inside the circle open... Well the missiles appeared in there!

Regarding the DD tanks you should have gotten a message? "DD tanks launched too far from coast sink in rough seas" I have tried to make this scenario EXTREMELY historical so many messages are there to report historical facts. All but 2 of the 30-some DD tanks launched to support the Omaha Beach landings sank at sea. On Utah beach the DDs were launched closer to the shore and made it to the beach (The small island of St Marcouf should provide protection against the dreaded Trireme syndrome)

Sten:
You got a good idea about the hedgerows. Attacking the Germans there will not be very successful but using them to your advantage is the right approach.

Case:
1. On the Air Force joining the Land Forces I am dead set against it. Landing in small villages on the coast is completely unrealistic. Also the Air Force is deadly once you get into a groove. It is not just attack the nearest unit or try to empty a city. It is more of a tool to deplete the German reinforcements, block their advances and prevent them from bringing tanks up... The Airforce will eventually get places to land in France

2. Beach mines are not subs, because if they were they would give you a chance not to attack them when you attempt to move into their square. They are simply naval missiles drawn as a piece of ocean. You can detect them one way... and also guarantee that you don't run into them. You might figure it out.

3. More of the Map should be revealed to the Airforce and the idea of the Allies and Airforce exchanging maps sounds good. Need to look into it to avoid creating other problems.

4. The B/W stripes were the hallmark of the entire Normandy Campaign... But B-26s were used on D-Day. Of course. My experience is that the entire challenge of getting past the beaches on D-Day dissappears if you get any more help from the Air Force. Also the amount of air attacks you would be able to deliver on a 11 turn D-Day is the same as you get in the following 11 days... (Because after part 1 the game timeline becomes 1 turn = 1 day) Too much.

A good book? D-Day by Stephen Ambrose and Citizen Soldiers (June 7-May 1945) by the same author. Excellent books on the American Army in Europe.

MagyarCrusader:
D-Day objectives besides the ones you got:
Pointe du Hoc (That tech comes with the destruction of the 240mm battery on the cliff)
Arromanches (VERY IMPORTANT, that's where the second Mulberry was built)
Bayeux (Can be captured on D-Day or early in part II)
Le Hamel
Lion s/Mer
Isigny
Carentan

The achievable techs are:

-5 beaches (Omaha, Utah, Gold, Sword, Juno)
-Pointe du Hoc
-Mulberry Design
-Coleville Draw
-Bayeux
-US-British Link-up
-Omaha-Utah Link-up (Not likely on D-Day)

You should get at least 7, the Mulberry & Colleville are probably the most important.

[klesh]

Ummm, guys tell me if I'm wrong. I got to turn 11 and folowed the new file loading procedure (not exiting the game) and when I came back to the game from the explorer, the option to "load game" was not highlighted on the pulldown menu!?! I have prior saves to revert to but did you guys (MGE) have this problem? I hope not...

[MagyarCrusader]

Nemo, I didn't even see that 240mm battery on my map until you mention it. It was unexplored, and I had to cheat to find it...

Of the techs, I don't have Pointe du Hoc (obviously), Omaha Utah link up, or Bayeux.

Of the cities, I don't have Isigny, Carentan, or Bayeux. Now that I know I'm supposed to attack these places, I have something to work for on my next couple of turns besides fortifying until the next phase.

I hope that battery isn't to hard to kill, because I have to work quite a ways to get there.

One more thing, should I build Mulberry harbor in phase 1? I have enough money to complete it this turn.

Thanks for your help!
[This message has been edited by MagyarCrusader (edited October 05, 2000).]

[Xin Yu]

Captain Nemo: a food caravan gives 5 rows of food, or 5*(size+1) icons. So the larger the city size, the more food from a caravan. However there is a shield support problem and a happiness problem as well, so a city cannot support too many units.

Barracks are pretty expensive. I plan to disband some infantries to add to the production.

Also I'll send a food caravan to each of the 4 air force cities so they get food surplus and can grow using 'WLTKD'. Just don't know if the cities have sewing systems or not. You have set the limit to be 8 instead 12 so without them the cities can't grow. As for the army cities, they grow pretty fast even without the 'WLTKD'.

Missile attack: I think if you give the transports a positive attack factor then the missiles will attack them. I don't know it is cost related.

[klesh]

I think I'm ok... I build the Mullberry Wonder in Arromanches, and the little icons came up. Text is updating as the turns pass as well. I think it's ok.

The freshly released panzers are costing my dearly. The Brits are waivering under the steady tide of armor on their left flank. I've lost controll of Coursulles and Le Hamel, leaving Lion-Sur-Mere isolated. I was able to reinforce the northernmost beachhead at La Madeline. Hoping for a breakout to Brevands and then Carentan.
With the help of the heavy bombers I was able to break the deadlock at Colleville, but I cannot utalize the 2nd Mullberry at St Laurent, because it's still in German hands. Arromanches has just recieved a fresh shipment of supplies, but I don't know how much offensive work I'll be able to do.
Thinking of starting over...
I was able to take Bayeux. Got a few of the beach secured techs, as well as British-American linkup.
I really want to play this with my new FW! I know no one who plays Civ. Gonna have to make another purchase.

[Sten Sture]

Ambrose's D-Day book is excellent...

Further Xinification of the scenario would occur if the Battleships and their shells were Airforce controlled - that way they couldn't land in the French liberated cities. In fact all of the non-landing craft could report up through the Air Forces under Mallory.

[Cal]

D-day is almost over, I've done well, I think.

I managed to achieve all available tects except for the Omaha-Utah Link-up. I was working on taking Carentan, but I ran out of good attack units and couldn't call in an air strike. The only city that got recaptured was Langrune, and I managed to take that back the next turn. Very fun, maybe more-so than Red Front, as none of that difficult stuff like Economics or City Management gets in the way.

------------------
The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Cal]

Ok, I finished D-day with 18 Allied Objectives.

Life is good...

------------------
The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Stefu]

Oh yes, one thing that would be important (perhaps even so imprtant that Nemo would answer to my post ) is that there should be backup of sf.sav, in case some people would want to replay the scenario. I did mine in first opportunity, of course That file would be loaded when you use the editor to load graphics and rules for first part, of course.

[Jonicro]

Im in the beginning of part 2 and noticed one problem.

In game.txt it says i should capture Caen as soon as possible and this is what i did but nothing happened. No tech, message or anything. Then i checked those event-files and noticed that only events related to Caen are in part 4.

So is it meant to be so human player isnt able to capture Caen before part 4? Atleast i was able to do this with using something like 10 veteran artillerys and all bombers in the area.

[Cal]

You checked the events files? The readme said not to, you know...

I think... historically, Caen was not taken at that time, how did you manage to take it? Which version of the game are you playing?

------------------
The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Jonicro]

Well yes...i checked those event files but only to see why i didnt get any message from taking that city.

Im playing MGE version. I managed to take the city with moving all available artillery to Bretteville. From there it takes only 1 movement point to suburbs of Caen so you can attack with full power. Right in the beginning of part 2 when you get to use those bombers and german tanks havent yet arrived its quite an easy task to take the city. Nemo, one easy way to make this a lot harder would be taking of that urban hex from 105,77.

[Sten Sture]

What does everyone think about the combat engineer unit's alpine movement? I feel like I got a little too much out of those guys on the first couple of turns. With the recommendation an above post (MaygarCr) I used the Mustangs to help the destroyers clear beach mines, and that allowed me to get all of my rangers and ceebees to the coast intact. With alpine movement they were able to wipe out several of the shore batteries on turn 2, before they had fired a shot.

Sharing maps via the diplo menu might be nice every 5 turns or so at first and possibly more frequently later - every turn would be too much I think.

[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited October 05, 2000).]

[Xin Yu]

Sharing maps? that will open a window for gifting ground units to the airforce for occupying a city, and trade techs so that the ground civ can produce air planes...

[Sten Sture]

bah - right, no way to avoid that. Map sharing has to be completely out.

Maybe a recon plane that had fighter type movement and no where to land on the first turn - that might allow some limited map discovery without sharing all info. But those might be able to just bump into mines unless they had a 1a or something. There are two open slots in the first rules.txt...

Xin - what do you think about the combat eng movement?