Eight Thousand Years of Civilization ...gone

[Ned]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
One thing that puzzles me is how 170 000 objects made of stone or clay could have been carried away. Imagine the manpower needed to do that in 1-2 days.

I will not be surprised if the loot are for sale in marketplaces all around Baghdad allready.

Really? Somehow, I doubt it. But, you never know.

[Keygen]

Originally posted by SpencerH

Thugs? Enterprising Iraqi folk who see an opportunity to re-distribute the wealth, thugs? Are you sure you're a eurocomm?

This brings me in mind a similar situation after the Gulf War: "Food for Oil".

Changing it a bit that would be: "Antiquities for Oil"

Only this time Iraq will not give oil and receive food but give ancient artifacts to auctions and US/British oil companies will give - through Iraqi successor puppet regime - Iraqi oil back to Iraqi people

Perhaps that's why the American and British troops didn't prevent the tragedy
Who knows how many money will make American and British auction halls from re-selling the artifacts after they buy them for small sums.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I still don't see anyone adressing the main point

why should the US have expected the IRaquesse to loot (And vandalise) their own museums?

would the PArisians loot the Louvre?

would any sane people loot and destroy their own cultural heritage?

I don't see why the US should have expected and planned for this occurance

in any real life event there will be things (both good and bad) that will be unplanned for and accidential

this is just one of the very unfortunatly occurances

Jon Miller

First of all, the looting was going on already for some days, secondly there was no law and order, thirdly a lot of Iraqis are poor and these antiquities are worth zillions of $$$, fourthly not everybody is honest

When looking at these points I would conclude that you would know beforehand to protect this museum, just like they did with the defense ministry and some other fecking buildings

Also a footnote: Actually it's not really their cultural heritage, just like modern Egyptions, who are Arabs and not authentic Egyptians (except for the Kopts), Iraqis aren't really Babylonians and Assyrians... well never mind that though

[Ned]

The museum was sacked by professionals.

BTW, does anyone know where the museum is in comparison with out troops on the day it was sacked?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.museum.looting/index.html

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by gunkulator
Assuming that Iraq stabilizes and gets a better gov't than what it had, I say we postpone all this bellyaching for now and ten years later ask the Iraqis this question:

Would you rather:

a) Have lived under Saddam's enlightened dictatorship for the last 10 years - with the added bonus of knowing that the artifacts were safe in the museum.

or

b) Enjoy the freedoms you have now but, sorry, the artifacts are in some fat cat's personal collection.

Wtf does it matter to you, you didn't live in Iraq anyway, and besides yes the artifacts were open to public from 2000 onwards... the reason the museum was closed till then was because of fear of the museum being destroyed by Americans

Do you actually know how much money and effort it has cost to bring all those artifacts together? all those excavations... jezus you'll never be able to replace it, not ever

Some of you say you want to save lives instead of some old pottery, well fu, waging a war is great way of saving lives , say that bollox to the Iraqis who have lost family in the bombings, tell that to the people who are lying in the hospitals (if you can call it that way, because right now they're nothing more than buildings housing injured ppl) with severed limbs...

Besides, these objects give shape to the history of a nation, they are more than just pottery and a few trinkets, but I think yall are too dumb to actually see that

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Ned
The museum was sacked by professionals.

BTW, does anyone know where the museum is in comparison with out troops on the day it was sacked?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...ing/index.html

Clearly, as a regular Iraqi wouldn't know the value of a simple tablet or an object that would look pretty invaluable to normal people

And, as someone else already mentioned, getting into the vaults and knowing where the most valuable stuff is stashed can only be done with help from the inside, getting all those objects out of there in such a short notice also requires good organisation, perhaps they had planned this operation for some time already!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I still don't see anyone adressing the main point

why should the US have expected the IRaquesse to loot (And vandalise) their own museums?

As I posted twice before, because it happened after the last Gulf War.

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Gunkulator :
You are minimizing the loss simply because you are in favor of the war.

Um, no. I'm against the war. However, since the war is obviously here, the best we can hope for is for it to end as quickly as possible with the smallest possible loss of life. Secondary to that is the smallest loss of property, including the artifacts.

I won't shed one tear for these artifacts that were mostly looted, not lost, if it saved at least one human life. What annoys me is the Monday morning quarterbacking going on here. We are all second guessing the field commanders with "Well, if I was in change, blah blah blah". I say, hold your tongue unless you know better.

Nobody here was in Baghdad at the time of the looting which makes all this posturing and outrage at best premature. In reality it is useful PR prop for yet another excuse to dump on the US.

[Herzog]

i dont care about the end of this conversation, bcouse between poeple with 2 strong ideas, each group, will always "have the reason"

BUT..please, FOR RESPECT TO THE REST OF THE 30 COUNTRIES IN AMERICA, STOP CALLING AMERICA TO THE USA, ITS JUST DISGUSTING

[Keygen]

Originally posted by Herzog

i dont care about the end of this conversation, bcouse between poeple with 2 strong ideas, each group, will always "have the reason"

BUT..please, FOR RESPECT TO THE REST OF THE 30 COUNTRIES IN AMERICA, STOP CALLING AMERICA TO THE USA, ITS JUST DISGUSTING

It is United States of America so it is unavoidable though you do have a right there

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


As I posted twice before, because it happened after the last Gulf War.

when Saddam was in power?

Jon Miller

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Trajanus



Wtf does it matter to you, you didn't live in Iraq anyway,

Neither do you. Thanks for making my point. It is the Iraqi's museum, not ours. Let's ask THEM what they think.

Do you actually know how much money and effort it has cost to bring all those artifacts together? all those excavations... jezus you'll never be able to replace it, not ever

It is a tragedy, no question. However, had Saddam spent 1/10 as much on his people instead of museums, palaces and statues, maybe we wouldn't be where we are today.

Some of you say you want to save lives instead of some old pottery, well fu, waging a war is great way of saving lives

My my, the f word twice. You don't need to wage war to destroy life. Saddam is proof positive of that. Call it "handling internal problems" or something. As a denizen of a country that has been liberated by war, I wouldn't be so quick to claim "war = always bad".

say that bollox to the Iraqis who have lost family in the bombings...

and the Kurds and the Shiites and the political dissenters and the free press.

Besides, these objects give shape to the history of a nation, they are more than just pottery and a few trinkets, but I think yall are too dumb to actually see that

I'm not sure who you're arguing with since nobody disagrees. The question I have asked is: How many human lives is it worth expending to save them?

[chequita guevara]

We were the first free country in the Americas, so we got first pick as to what to call ourselves.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
when Saddam was in power?

Jon Miller

In the areas in rebellion against Hussein.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by paiktis22
of course anyone who is found in the possession of such artifacts should be charged with accessory to crime. and that should be announced now. just a minor discouragmenet...

...and a MAJOR encouragement to destroy the loot so it can't be used as evidence.