Eight Thousand Years of Civilization ...gone

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by yavoon
u sound really bitter, maybe u need a hug?

*hug*

obviously u weren't able to flame the americans for the failure of urban warfare or for the long drawn out war that cost us thousands of american lives.

You don't get it do you?

By and large, I am pro-American. Just as I am pro-British, pro-Europe, and pro-West.

What I am not in favour of is a complete abrogation of responsibility for the situations that 'we', or in this case 'you', create. If you want to run around conquering countries in the name of the 'war on terror' or some other reason, fine. Just pay a little attention to the people and the places that you 'liberate'. OK?

btw, the excuse that the US doesn't have the forces to police a city it just conquered plays a little hollow. No matter how you cut it. If you can't control the situation, what the hell are you doing?

[The Mad Monk]

I'm not going to defend the looting of the museum because I can't. However, I will dispute that it is possible to a force of that size to restore order in the alloted time without imposing draconian measures -- and maybe not even then.

Does anyone know what the size of a police force usually is in a city of 5 million? I mean dedicated police, trained for police work, in peacetime.

[notyoueither]

How hard is it to defend a few hospitals and an odd museum?

[The Mad Monk]

Depends on where they're located, if we're aware of the problem in a timely manner, and if noones shooting at us.

The United States has a history of not using the military for police. One of the results of this is that the military, by and large, are not trained for police work. Little or no crowd control or non-lethal methods to speak of, and that goes especially for marines. They're trained to kill when threatened. Riot scenes could go pretty damn bad pretty damn quick.

I suspect we're waiting to get trained military police units in there.

[The Mad Monk]

Hmmm...isn't Sprayber military police?

[Q Classic]

ah, fvck it. it's just a museum.

after all, it's just worthless trinkets from ages gone past, right?

you know who to blame. it's saddam, for making us come in there to chase him out.
it's the us, for failing to defend what it's taken.
it's the iraqis, for wanting to loot now that authority is gone.
it's the ancients, who didn't try to make their garbage biodegradable.

boo-fvcking-hoo, a museum's been looted. nobody's going to be responsible and step up for it, so naturally the fingerpointing is coming around again.

humans are a nasty, brutish sort of creature, don't you think?

i don't think human history is worth saving, not with all of this sh1t.

[notyoueither]

I find it difficult to believe that commanders on the ground were unaware of the scale of the destruction occurring.

We are not talking about rioters who needed shooting. We are talking about looters, some of whom were chased off by museum employees, and others who are now being discouraged by hospital employees bearing weapons.

However you cut it, the last few hours have blackened the record in ways that should not have happened.

I actually understand why there may have been misgivings about doing anything about it. However, I think the US armed forces might want to pay a little more attention to aid to civil powers if the US administration wants to charge off liberating various places around the globe.

[The Mad Monk]

I can agree with that.

I'm curious -- did this happen in Afghanistan at the time? I don't remember anything like this happening. I'm also wondering about previous occupations (if they can be regarded as such -- Panama, for example). Has anything previous gotten this bad this quickly? Had we any reson to expect it?

[Keygen]

Re: Eight Thousand Years of Civilization ...gone

Originally posted by Uncle Sparky

According to CBC reports, the curators of the museum had asked for American assistance in protecting the treasures even before American troops entered the city. None was forthcoming.

Sparky, I find it kind unlikely that any army in the world would dispatch any troop in a war zone to protect ancient artifacts from looters. It would take great courage and sensitivity to do that

Originally posted by Uncle Sparky

The damage is irreplaceable, of course.

Indeed

Originally posted by Uncle Sparky

Long after George W Bush becomes a footnote, this incident will be remembered and mourned.

I greatly doubt...

Originally posted by Uncle Sparky

Should America pay for this tragedy ?

I think those raw looters should pay the prise who think that their prosperity is more important than humanity's memory...

[Keygen]

Originally posted by Static Universe

Yeah, and if they had shot a bunch of looters, I'm sure everyone would be complaining about that.

Why do I get the feeling that even the presence of a small team of US troops would be enough to keep any looter in distance?

[Keygen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The US could have done something, but didn't.

What exactly? I mean, they had been fighting in Baghdad University over the last few days. But, the war doesn't matter, they should have put armed guards at the museum instead, right?

I thought that American and British troops captured Baghdad without fight except for a few snippers, some irregulars and a suicidal attack...

[Keygen]

Originally posted by yavoon

to some extent I think the idea of the american military entering baghdad and immediately arresting/shooting ppl for doing civil crimes would be seen poorly by the iraqi's.

Not more than your missiles and bombs

[Keygen]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior

Oh no! Millenium old plates are going to actually have people eating from them! US troops should be tried for war crimes!

Oh, no! Archeologists could actually understand history better by studing those millenium old plates! They should be put in trial for preventing people from eating in them!

[Sandman]

The safety of ancient artefacts was being mentioned months ago. It's unforgivable that this should have been allowed to happen, since it could have been so easily prevented. That museum was every bit a part of the infrastructure that the Americans claimed they would strive to protect, and also represents a significant part of the entire human species' history. Frankly, securing the museum should have been given a priority all it's own.

I guess the old stuff in the museum is less important than the really old stuff under the ground.

At least Iran and Syria will be able to take steps to protect their museums, when it's their turn to be 'liberated'.

[Keygen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

However, kicking Saddam out of power DEFINETLY justifies the destruction of some ancient artifacts.

It depends on the value of the artifacts.
Some might have more value than any Saddam, Bush or you and me