The Star Wars vs Star Trek Thread; because it's been awhile.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

The detail from the article about that is bunk ... relies on unfounded assumptions.

Does that mean that we can ignore stardestroyer.net now?

No, because he gives the sources for all of his numbers, and when he is making an assumption, he always says so, explains the rationale behind making one and is always very generous towards the Fed side when doing so.

[GePap]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

The detail from the article about that is bunk ... relies on unfounded assumptions.

Does that mean that we can ignore stardestroyer.net now?

Come on DD: if the ewoks can defeat crack emperial troops, what chance in hell do these troops have against soldiers with modern weapons? That Imperial equipment had pretty crappy communications, plus they seemed to have to aim by sight, and not using sophisticated sensors.

judging form "canonical works", the Empire has problems.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Not only is it inconclusive, it's not an example of it. It's an example of them dodging using warp. An SW ship could, for all we know, do the same thing. Short hyperspace jumps are doable.

What are you talking about? Dodging? The Enterprise ate plasma torpedo.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Why didn't the Federation use this tactic in other battles? Why isn't it common practice? Could it be because maybe it puts enormous strain on a ship's engines to engage and disengage warp so fast?

Other battles? All other battles took place at FTL, from Wrath of Khan to First Contact, etc.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
And how would a ship zipping along FTL attack one that isn't going FTL?

"How" as in the actual mechanism? Damned if I know.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Not until you tell me the scientific principles behind the Q or the Founders.

You can take those out without damaging the Star Trek Universe. You can't take the Force out without the whole Star Wars thing falling apart.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
Come on DD: if the ewoks can defeat crack emperial troops, what chance in hell do these troops have against soldiers with modern weapons?

I realize that. I'm just trying to get others to do the same.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by GePap
Also, the political state of these entities need to be accounted for. Obviously the Empire has problems internally, which could be utilized by outsiders. on the other hand, races like the Ancient ones (including Vorlons and Shadows) are nice and fee of internal political probems.

The small fleet at Endor was done for a specific reason: If large numbers of Imperial ships were diverted there, it might tip off the Rebels to the impending trap. Palpatine only needed enough ships there to pin the rebels in...he wanted the Death Star to destroy the Rebel fleet.

Utilizing the Empire's internal problems would be problematic for the Federation, if it were the Empire invading our galaxy...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Utilizing the Empire's internal problems would be problematic for the Federation, if it were the Empire invading our galaxy...

Speaking of which, it has never been shown that Imperial ships are capable of passing through wormholes.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


I told you, in Balance of Terror, for example. Even if that is not conclusive, I have already shown you it is much more difficult to hit an object travelling at FTL then one at sublight.

We are talking about vectors here, not mere scalars.

I don't think you want to start on Physics, Boris. Tell me how this Force thing is anything remotely scientific.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; The Enterprise was not moving FTL while tracking the BoP! Hell, I remember distinctly that it was sitting still when the frickin' nuke hit it!

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Speaking of which, it has never been shown that Imperial ships are capable of passing through wormholes.

Are you on the crack cocaine? Why the Hell wouldn't they be able to?

[GePap]

Lets look at each of the 5 movies in the Star wars canon:

episode 4: the biggest battle in it is the attack on the death Star. we have one huge base and a bunch of fighters for the empire, though for some reason, not enough fighters in a moon sized base to take out what looks like at most 2 dozen small craft. Empire looses.

episode 5: Battle for Hoth. We never see more than lets say 10 ships, and the Imperial invasion force is mae up of what, about 10-12 Imperial walkers? Empire wins.

episode 6: A small rebel fleet beats a slightly bigger Imperial fleet, again takes out a moon sized base with a bucnh of small craft, and as i said, neolithic furballs using wood and stone weaposn take out an elite Imperial legion.

Episode 1: biggest battle in space, over Naboo: we see, what, 20 Trade Federation ships, tops? And on the surface,the two amries don't seem to number more than a few thousands.

Episode 2: The whole "clone army of the republic, we are told, is 200,000) and the battle on whatveer planet is not particularly impresive.


Now, for the first three movies we can say having to use models for the ships and no computers limits the vessels on screen. But by the time of episode 1, using computers Lucas could have shown thousands of Trade Federation ships above Naboo: just cut and paste. He didn;t, and didn;t do it again in the second one.

I have to say that given the "Canon", the power of the Empire seems rather weak, if over and over what appears to be a miniscule enemy beats them. you say the Empire had 1,000,000 ships? Then why not have 10,000 Over Hoth and turns the planet into molten slag if this rebellion is so damned pesky?

[Urban Ranger]

You lose your Star Trek geek license

Originally posted by Lonestar
I've said it before and I'll say it again; The Enterprise was not moving FTL while tracking the BoP! Hell, I remember distinctly that it was sitting still when the frickin' nuke hit it!

It's not a nuke, it's a plasma torpedo.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Are you on the crack cocaine? Why the Hell wouldn't they be able to?

Maybe they can, but it was never shown that they can.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by St Leo
Nah, the US is more like the Old Republic. Europe is the New Republic.

More like the Galatic Empire trying to force its foul socialist ways onto Eastern Europe & the UK.

[Lonestar]

Re: You lose your Star Trek geek license

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


It's not a nuke, it's a plasma torpedo.

:: pulls out change in pocket :: would you like to bet ::counts:: $.27 that the BoP fired a nuke at it?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by GePap
I have to say that given the "Canon", the power of the Empire seems rather weak, if over and over what appears to be a miniscule enemy beats them. you say the Empire had 1,000,000 ships? Then why not have 10,000 Over Hoth and turns the planet into molten slag if this rebellion is so damned pesky?

Good point.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by GePap

I have to say that given the "Canon", the power of the Empire seems rather weak, if over and over what appears to be a miniscule enemy beats them. you say the Empire had 1,000,000 ships? Then why not have 10,000 Over Hoth and turns the planet into molten slag if this rebellion is so damned pesky?

Well, seeing as most of the Movies took place as far from the "bright center of the Galaxy" as you could make it...

Lemme ask you this, if you had a bunch of Rebels (who incidently, had 3 km long ships more powerful than ISDs), populations that didn't really care for being ruled over, would you want to divert most of your forces from important systems?

Hell, I wouldn't.

As George Lucas said in the Intro to The Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Books & Comics count as canon too, so long as they do not contradict what's in the movies or novelizations of movies.