The Star Wars vs Star Trek Thread; because it's been awhile.

[DinoDoc]

Re: Re: You lose your Star Trek geek license

Originally posted by Lonestar
:: pulls out change in pocket :: would you like to bet ::counts:: $.27 that the BoP fired a nuke at it?

They fired both.

[Lonestar]

Good. Now tell him that!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Good. Now tell him that!

Only if you tell me how in hell Imperial troops will have a chance against a Fed world if they get wiped out by teddy bears using paleolithic weapons?

[MRT144]

dont you realize dino that the storm trooper's weapons have only 3 settings:
always miss, never hit, and break down.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: Re: You lose your Star Trek geek license

Originally posted by DinoDoc
They fired both.

Both?

[DinoDoc]

Re: Re: Re: Re: You lose your Star Trek geek license

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Both?

I believe that this is a description of the battle in Balance of Terror: http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymai...dromattack.htm

[GePap]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Well, seeing as most of the Movies took place as far from the "bright center of the Galaxy" as you could make it...

Lemme ask you this, if you had a bunch of Rebels (who incidently, had 3 km long ships more powerful than ISDs), populations that didn't really care for being ruled over, would you want to divert most of your forces from important systems?

Hell, I wouldn't.

As George Lucas said in the Intro to The Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Books & Comics count as canon too, so long as they do not contradict what's in the movies or novelizations of movies.

Boris keeps sayng the Empire had 25,000 SD and 975,000+ auxiliary vessels. they couldn't scrape together more than a couple of dozen to wipe out an important rebel base? and as for the battle anbove Endor: Boris says they had to have a small force to lure the rebels in..the same rebels that had a hard time finding a MOON SIZED base. Why couldn't the empire hide a very significant force within strike range of the system? Fine, have a small fleet there, but given the proof that these death Stars are pathetically weak aginst fighters, perhaps they should have hough about giving further protection to such an asset by having a significant reserve within distance: unless Imperial geenrals are such doofoses they can't make much of a plan.

maybe in the printed media they have some more impressive things, but as you said, nothing can counterdict what happeend in the movies, and seeing what happened in the movies, the Empire seems very brittle, run b incompetent tacticians and falling apart politcally if it can only make due with insignifcant fracitons of its forces at a time for crucial missions.

May i add that only once have I read the "novelization" of any sci fi show, and it was Robotech. i don;t care to read SW or ST or B5 books. (Oh,and the Zentraedi or the Invid would really wipe the floor with these bozos)

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You lose your Star Trek geek license

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I believe that this is a description of the battle in Balance of Terror: http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymai...dromattack.htm

That's a nuclear space mine, not a missile.

[DinoDoc]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You lose your Star Trek geek license

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's a nuclear space mine, not a missile.

Correct.

[Straybow]

My tolerance for drivel is fairly low, so I only read a few SW books (a trilogy, a couple of short story compilations). I hadn't seen that map, but it is an even better example of something pulled out of Lucas' @ss and reverse-engineered into "canon."

In any real galaxy the core would be packed with white dwarves, neutron stars, and black holes to the extent that the shaded region (known as the Shapley region) would be bathed in high levels of gamma, x-rays, and high energy particles. It would be like trying to live inside an x-ray machine.

[Drake Tungsten]

Only if you tell me how in hell Imperial troops will have a chance against a Fed world if they get wiped out by teddy bears using paleolithic weapons?

Or how they would stand up to a combined legion of ruthless Sardaukar and grizzled Fremen?

Dune!!!

[GeneralTacticus]

Heh. Might be quite amusing trying to see the Imperials trying to deal with Voice...

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Only if you tell me how in hell Imperial troops will have a chance against a Fed world if they get wiped out by teddy bears using paleolithic weapons?

A flaw in Jango Fett's Gene code that makes them teddy bearophobic!

But hey, Some ground troops are better than NO ground troops. And Imperial Troops at least have combined arms. The Federation has....uh...a Humvee?

When we saw the Imperials land and fight a real battle in ESB, they kicked the stuffing out of the Rebels, whose ground forces are signifigantly better armed than that of the Federation's, I might add.

Straybow, The Deep Core is often described as being riddled with black holes and neutron stars, dead stars, etc. What are you talking about?

[Boris Godunov]

Endor: The loss to the Ewoks isn't quite so pathetic as you are implying. First, the Empire was taken completely by surprise--even if they were aware of the existence of the little buggers, they had no reason to expect the rebels to be able to ally with them, much less that they'd ochestrate a sneak attack. Second, the Imps were operating in extremely difficult, unfamiliar terrain, while the Ewoks new the area intimately. Vietnam vets can attest to how effective guerrila tactics can be in jungle terrain. Third, the Ewoks outnumbered the Imps significantly.


GePap:

As for the tactical problems of operating sans Emperor, that's just not valid. At Endor, the Imperial fleet was outnumbered in terms of capital ships, but they held off a direct onslaught of the Rebel cruisers for 30 minutes before they began losing. That is the Emperor's power, apparently. However, the Emperor wasn't present at Hoth, which was a resounding tactical victory for the Empire. There are also plenty of examples in the novels of Imperial forces racking up big tactical wins, even after the Emperor is long dead.

Remember that RotJ is years after Yavin. By this point, the Rebels have gained the sympathy of many more worlds, in a large part thanks to Alderaan, including the Bothans, who are excellent spies. Mon Mothma mentions them in the briefing before the attack. Had the Empire been diverting such large resources to Endor, it would undoubtedly have tipped them off to the trap.

As for the DS being vulnerable to fighters: that was what the shield generated from the planet was for. Remember that no ships could get through it, which is why the Rebels were in deep doodoo. The Empire didn't expect the Rebel force on the planet to be successful.

As for why there wasn't a huge battlefleet at Hoth--it's mentioned in the film itself. The Empire was pursuing the Rebel fleet all over the galaxy. Vader's task force was just one group looking for them. Keep in mind the Rebel fleet wasn't at Hoth, just a large land base. Considering the scope of the Outer Rim, it's quite imaginable that that the Empire had divvied its available ships into task forces of such size to search every system they could. Vader raced to Hoth immediately after learning of Piett's probe, not waiting for any reinforecements. They couldn't bombard the planet to slag, as there was the planetary shield. But even if they could, Vader wouldn't have wanted to, because he was already hunting Luke. His entire purpose of trundling through the Hoth base personally was to be there to nab Luke.

Nothing in the printed media contradicts what is in the films in terms of what we've said. If the printed books show the Empire winning brilliant tactical victories outside of the events in the films, then it is canon.

Straybow:

While I find it amusing you spent time photoshopping that map, you're making, once again, a big assumption. Notice how the Core worlds don't reside inside the very core itself, but are in a ring around it. If what you said was valid (and it isn't, since SW descriptions distinctly say what Lonestar pointed out), this would merely be corraboration of the vast size of their galaxy, and that the core worlds are far enough away from the galaxy's center to function as normal planets.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Endor: The loss to the Ewoks isn't quite so pathetic as you are implying.

They we using rocks and sticks against armor that is suppossed to stand up well against blaster fire. It shouldn't matter if the teddy bears outnumber them 20-1. It would have been more believable had they gone with the original plan and made Endor a Wookie colony.