The Star Wars vs Star Trek Thread; because it's been awhile.

[DinoDoc]

Now to clear up the misconception about the Federation's size: http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymai...rationsize.htm

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

No they aren't.

"The Gift":

Janeway : "Ah! Tuvok's meditation lamp! I was with him when he got it, six years ago, from a Vulcan master - who doubled the price when he saw our Starfleet insignias."

Straight from that website;

Jake : "Come on Nog!"
Nog : "No!"
Jake : "Why not?"
Nog : "It's my money Jake. If you want to bid at the auction, use your own money."
Jake : "I'm Human, I don't have any money."
Nog : "It's not my fault your species decided to abandon currency based economics in favour of some philosophy of self enhancement."
Jake : "Hey, watch it! There's nothing wrong with our philosophy. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
Nog : "What does that mean, exactly?"
Jake : "It means... it means we don't need money."
Nog : "Well if you don't need money then you certainly don't need mine."

Monopoly money, I'm telling you.
----------

stardestroyer.net aknowledges that, while there may be many thousand planets colonized by the Federation, only 150 are large enough to be members.

The Naboo sector has 36 Full member states, 40,000 Inhabited worlds, and 300,000,000 ( ) uninhabited systems.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Now to clear up the misconception about the Federation's size: http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymai...rationsize.htm

The author of that page is stretching it.

Lily : "How many planets are in this Federation?"
Picard : "Over one hundred and fifty, spread across eight thousand light years."

She asks a direct question, he answers directly. In light of Picard's knowledge and honesty, I think it's logical to assume that Kirk's statement is purely about the extent of humanity, not Federation territory, or it is simply a hyperbolic boast. He may also be referring to every dinky little outpost, which hardly adds much to the Federation's strategic position vis-a-vis the Empire, since the Empire controls a million worlds.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Monopoly money, I'm telling you.

You're going to have a hard time explaining the action of Vash, who seems at least partially motivated by greed, if you are going to hold to the monopoly money theory. And you still haven't touched the Voyager quote I provided.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

You're going to have a hard time explaining the action of Vash, who seems at least partially motivated by greed, if you are going to hold to the monopoly money theory. And you still haven't touched the Voyager quote I provided.

Doesn't say if it's in Credits or Precious metals the deal was in.

One example was how Kassidy Yates paid her crew in Latinum. Now, why would she do that? One reason; Credits are worthless and easier to trake, much like the Rubles of the USSR. Odds are Her ship was involved in a little blackmarket smuggling (and we KNOW it was), and the authorities had the old "winki, wink, nudge nudge" deal going on.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Oops, forgot the map!

That looks like the map of a very small galaxy. Similar to the Lesser Magellan Cloud.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Lily : "How many planets are in this Federation?"
Picard : "Over one hundred and fifty, spread across eight thousand light years."

No, no.

Lily: "How many planets are in this sector of the Federation?"

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


That looks like the map of a very small galaxy. Similar to the Lesser Magellan Cloud.

Oh BS. You have no way of judging the size of the galaxy by that map...and again, canonical sources put it at 400 billion stars, over 100,000 ly across.

No, no.

Lily: "How many planets are in this sector of the Federation?"

You lose all credibility when posting out and out falsehoods like this.

http://www.stinsv.com/MOv/st8a2.htm

You can hear the actual sound clip from the movie above. Lily clearly says, "How many planets are in this Federation?". No "this sector" whatsoever.

Thank you, come again.

[DinoDoc]

I just caught this one:

stardestroyer.net aknowledges that, while there may be many thousand planets colonized by the Federation, only 150 are large enough to be members.

Are you really so desperate to prove your point that you would rely upon an obviously biased source of information?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I just caught this one:

stardestroyer.net aknowledges that, while there may be many thousand planets colonized by the Federation, only 150 are large enough to be members.

Are you really so desperate to prove your point that you would rely upon an obviously biased source of information?

That information comes directly from canonical Star Trek sources. Unless Picard was inexplicably mistaken or lying to Lily?

How does that affect the argument? Considering that the industrial, speed and power advantages of the Empire can only be answered either with deus ex machinae ("Q will save us!") or pitiful responses like "We have the Picard maneuver," I hardly think it is our side that is desperate.

Whether the Federation has 150 worlds or a thousand, it is miniscule in comparison to the Empire's million worlds.

[vee4473]

I realize I am out of my depth here, but I thought I would throw this out...

How about the possibility that the federation could wipe the floor with the empire because I seem to remember reading in one of the Timothy Zahn trilogy series with Thrawn, that the reason the rebels beat the empire at endor was because after the emperor was killed, the fleet lost all coordination and tactical skill (the emperor was controlling them thriough the force)

so, without the emperor or another powerful dark jedi to coordinate the fleets, the empire is really not that tactically savvy...and less of a threat to the seemingly more tactically skilled federation.

ehh

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Whether the Federation has 150 worlds or a thousand,

We're looking at 15-50,000 Federation worlds.

it is miniscule in comparison to the Empire's million worlds.

We also have potentially one million habitable planets in the explored portion of the galaxy which are split among the major and minor powers. Should the Empire invade the Milky Way, I don't find it outside the realm of possibility that the balancing coalition that formed during the Dominion War could reconstitute itself.

Missed this one earlier:

Considering that the industrial ... advantages of the Empire

http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymain=/articles/hedstarfleetsize.htm

[monolith94]

If Ewoks can defeat the Empire, I see no reason why the Vorlons would have trouble. Quality over quantity, you see...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

We're looking at 15-50,000 Federation worlds.

There's no ST canonical source for that number. If the Federation only consists of 150 planets, as Picard says, then what else can be said?

We also have potentially one million habitable planets in the explored portion of the galaxy which are split among the major and minor powers. Should the Empire invade the Milky Way, I don't find it outside the realm of possibility that the balancing coalition that formed during the Dominion War could reconstitute itself.

I think "one million" is a huge exaggeration there...would need to provide sources on that. How many of those inhabitable planets are actually inhabited? How many would possess any level of habitation significant enough to make them a factor?

I don't see all that much reason to think the other races would rush to band together to defeat the Empire. The Ferengi would probably view them as incredibly wealthy potential trading partners. The Romulans had to be tricked into helping the Federation before. The Klingons...well, maybe, but how trustworthy would they be after their sneak attack? Who else besides that?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Oh BS. You have no way of judging the size of the galaxy by that map...and again, canonical sources put it at 400 billion stars, over 100,000 ly across.

After you look at a few more pictures of galaxies, you'll find out.

By the by, what the heck are "canonical sources?" I have already pointed out the silliness of the novels, but you are still sticking with them.