The Star Wars vs Star Trek Thread; because it's been awhile.

[Straybow]

I got your "canon" right here...

I don't see anything that indicates the Core Worlds are near the core of the galaxy. In fact, the history of the Sith implies that the Empire was confined to one side of the galaxy, with the Sith homeworld established opposite the galactic core by I-forget-who. A whole empire of previously unknown races was conquered by the Sith. A Sith battle fleet that invaded the Corelian side, generations later, was miraculously wiped out by I-forget-what-improbable-plot-device. The other side of the galaxy was never throughly explored by the Empire, much less controlled.

Yes, ST series have plenty of oddities but Roddenberry never claimed to establish a "canon." As ridiculous as Q or the shapeshifters may be they are used to explore some curious ideas. I can't say that Ewoks do the same.

Endor was originally supposed to be a Wookie colony, hence the believability that they might overcome a battallion of Stormtroopers despite lack of energy weapons. Anakin was supposed to be a teenager, hence the assertion that he was too old to safely train (and the like implications in ESB regarding Luke). Both of these were dumbed down during production to appeal to preadolescent audiences.

And need I mention...

Spoiler:

Jar-Jar Binks, the pinnacle of Lucas' creative abilities?

[The preceding is not recommended for readers who may be pregnant, have a heart condition or weak stomach.]

[Inverse Icarus]

starGATE you ninnies.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Ming
Shields would be worthless against the power of the weapons. We are talking planet killer weapons... ships wouldn't stand a chance, even with the wimpy shielding.

but ming, the planet did not have a sheild. who knows what would have happened if it had one.

you'd be suprised how effective shielding could be (in theory) with a large supply of power. In every show, to make it more fun, theres always a limit as to how powerful a shield is / how long it can last, but with a WHOLE PLANET's surplus power, you could probaby make a planetary sheild

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Ming
Shields would be worthless against the power of the weapons. We are talking planet killer weapons... ships wouldn't stand a chance, even with the wimpy shielding.

Ming, that doesn't change the fact that The First Ones have paper-thin hulls that are vulnerable to nukes. (And Narn freakin' Battlecrusiers).

Also Alderaan's planetary shield held off the DS1's superlaser for a split second. That's a powerful shield! And it sure as Hell would nullify the Shadow DeathCloud. (Vorlon planet killer we don't know, as we never saw it in action)

[Straybow]

No, Ming, I mean that Vorlon and Shadow ships don't have shields, while ST and SW targetting isn't limited to radar and passive EM like near-future human tech in B5.

B5 races are dead meat.

[Pedrunn]

Like something could dare to compete with babylon 5.

Star War is ok, but Star Trek

[GePap]

The technology of Earthforce is certainly limited (since they are actual humans in this gaalxy (unlike whatever these Star Wars things are, and are only in the mid 23nd century and not the mid 24th). The tech of the first ones isn't.

May i add a few things not said: it seems that the Empire is utterly clueless about Hyperspace, so in theory B% ships can move without any Emperial sensors being able to track them. As far as the Shadows are concerned, in theory they can phase in and out of hyperspace to attack Imperial ships, without the Empir being able to chase them down in hyperspace. This gives them some added mobiity. Also, I never saw any nanotechnology mentioned in star Wars: obviously the Star Trek universe has some, and so does the B5 universe (The shadow planet killer uses nanobots). Maybe there are ways of using nasnotech that might also inflict damage on the Empire they seem unable to conter against except int he most brute frce sort fo ways.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by GePap


May i add a few things not said: it seems that the Empire is utterly clueless about Hyperspace, so in theory B% ships can move without any Emperial sensors being able to track them. As far as the Shadows are concerned, in theory they can phase in and out of hyperspace to attack Imperial ships, without the Empir being able to chase them down in hyperspace. This gives them some added mobiity. Also, I never saw any nanotechnology mentioned in star Wars: obviously the Star Trek universe has some, and so does the B5 universe (The shadow planet killer uses nanobots). Maybe there are ways of using nasnotech that might also inflict damage on the Empire they seem unable to conter against except int he most brute frce sort fo ways.

Nanotechnology ion SW has already been covered here (HInt: they have it in spades), and while the B5 version of Hyperspace will allow them to hide, it is signifigantly slower than SW Hyperspace.

First Ones tech has a;ready been covered.

[DinoDoc]

Nanotechnology ion SW has already been covered here

Where? I still say that the ability to fire while cloaked would give ST the edge over the Empire and I haven't even gone into the tactical advantages the phase cloak gives them.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Where? I still say that the ability to fire while cloaked would give ST the edge over the Empire and I haven't even gone into the tactical advantages the phase cloak gives them.

What the devil do you think a World Devastator's Molecular furnace is, a cruisinart? I covered that on the first or second page.

Cloaked ships in SW universe can fire too. Just as fortunately, There are methods for the SW has for detecting cloaked vessels. Expensive, but better than setting up elaborate "Tachyon grids".

Phase cloak? Oh, you mean the one phasecloak in existance that was (a)unstable, and (b) only seen once, dispite the fact the Federation's existance was on the verge of being destroyed by both the Dominion and the Borg? I find it likely that the phasecloak would not be used in any meaningful way in the campaign.

DinoDoc, I find it odd you'd be rooting for the communist Federation to win. I thought you were a founding member of the AECCP?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
There are methods for the SW has for detecting cloaked vessels. Expensive, but better than setting up elaborate "Tachyon grids".

What kind of geek are you? Anti-proton scans are the order of the day now.

I find it likely that the phasecloak would not be used in any meaningful way in the campaign.

I disbelieve. So far the only thing that has kept them from being fully deployed are the obligations placed upon them in thier treaty with the Romulan Star Empire. Facing an enemy of the "claimed" size of the Empire and the current era of good feelings in the wake of Nemesis I wouldn't expect those to be much of an impediment.

I thought you were a founding member of the AECCP?

The Ferengi are "allies" of the Federation as a result of Rom becoming Grand Nagus.

PS One Fed ship stopped an invasion by the Vong equivilant, Species 8472. How hard do you think it would be for the entire Federation to take on the Empire.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

What kind of geek are you? Anti-proton scans are the order of the day now.

pff, all the Empire has to do is install CGT scanners on their larger ships with their battlegroups and the cloak advantage is nullified.

I disbelieve. So far the only thing that has kept them from being fully deployed are the obligations placed upon them in thier treaty with the Romulan Star Empire. Facing an enemy of the "claimed" size of the Empire and the current era of good feelings in the wake of Nemesis I wouldn't expect those to be much of an impediment.

And the Dominion landing troops on Betazed, Bolarus, and bombing Earth wouldn't count as "dire straits"? Hell, as far as we know, the RSE didn't revoke the "Only in the Gamma quadrant" rule for the Defiant.

Incidently, a "column" on the official www.startrek.com indicated that we shouldn't take to hood feelings atface value by anymeans. Remember, there were "good feelings" after the DW, yet the RSE military was more than willing to support Shinzon if he attacked the UFP.

The Ferengi are "allies" of the Federation as a result of Rom becoming Grand Nagus.

Whoop-de-doo. Still doesn't change the fact that the Federation is a communist society with starfleet providing judges for civilian cases, the government can shut down the media on a whim, thay sell out their colonists to foriegn powers, and have monopoly money for currency.

[DinoDoc]

We can settle this debate here with the Star Wars vs. Star Trek Mod.

[Lonestar]

I've seen mods where the Federation is vastly overpowered, and where the Empire is underpowered. We settle this like geeks!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Lonestar
We settle this like geeks!

Then respond to my post script about Species 8472.