The Star Wars vs Star Trek Thread; because it's been awhile.

[Dominikos]

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~Dominik - Lord of the Putumayo~

[Richard Bruns]

Originally posted by Dr. A. Cula
I came here to find the answer to the old qurestion about who would win a confrontation between an Enterprise security team, who get killed on sight, and a squad of SW stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of an elephant in a corridor, or something like that.
Instead, I find people arguing about spaceships.

This is an interesting question. I think that the Federation clearly has the advantage in personal firearms. It has been demonstarted multiple times that a hand phaser has the ability to carve enormous tunnels into solid rock, whereas the star wars variety only takes a few chips out of the walls. Stormtrooper armor would be useless against such firepower, especially since it is just about useless against normal star wars blasters.

As for aim, the minor characters and extras in all of the series are equally bad at hitting things.
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And on the races thing, I always thought of Klingons as representing Japanese. Especially given how the view of them changed. In the origial, they were the funny looking foreign bad guys. In the next generation, they are proud warriors with a bushido-type code of honor.
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Neither side uses laser weapons. Both star wars turbolasers and star trek phasers clearly are not operated by coherent light, since they both travel slower than the speed of sound and can be seen from the side. The only way to copmare their efficacy fairly is to see what effect they have on solid chunks of matter like asteroids and planets. As far as I can tell, each side´s weapons are about equally advanced in their capability, but the Empire has a lot more of these weapons.
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The difference in travel type is interesting. Star Trek´s warp speed is clearly slower, but ships are able to maneuver in warpspace. In Star Wars, they travel very fast but are unable to change their course once they start. So the Federation may have a tactical advantage in their use of Warp Drive (Picard Maneuver), even though the strategic disadvantage is severe.

In fact, Star Wars transportation is a lot like the creation of an artificial wormhole, especially given the way they have to put so much effort into calculating the jump trajectory. They exit space-time at one point in the galaxy and emerge at another point.

However, I conjecture that Star Wars actually has Federation-style warp drive. Remember how, when the hyperdrive was down, the Falcon took a couple of weeks to get to Bespin from Hoth? There is no way they could do that at below the speed of light, so they must have been using warp technology of some kind, probably equivalent to Star Trek warp drive. So they probably do have it as a backup, though they have developed something better, their wormhole technology, as a primary travel system.

[Mr. President]

I figure the Star Trek universe has better technology. Phasers, gravitons, warp drive, time holes, Lieutenant Commander Data . . . no contest.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Speed counts. In the first Star Wars series Han Solo brags that his ship can make "point 5 past light speed". Star Trek ships travel much faster, so they would be able to dart in and fire on the Star Destroyers and move out of range before the Imperials got off a shot. Also Star Trek weapons would presumably pass through Imperial shields without diminishing since phasor beams phase in and out of subspace. Since the empire hasn't discovered subspace then they wouldn't be able to shield their ships against such weapons.

That's not the case at all. The Empire has MUCH faster ships. As stated in the films, ships in Star Wars can transverse the galaxy in a matter of days. Federation ships take decades at top speed. We don't know what their notation method of speed is, so saying the ".5 past lightspeed" means anything specific is a bad assumption.

Speed advantage = Empire.

As for shields, you can read up here:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html

Imperial shields are, as far as we can tell, just as good at stopping phasers as Federation shields would be. In addition, Imperial ships have far superior armor than Federation ships, and Federation phasers perform rather poorly against armor as opposed to Imperial turbolasers.

In a ship-to-ship battle, the advantage would be on Imperial warships.

[Master Zen]

Plus, who could withstand an onslaught of TIE Fighters???

Only a fleet equipped with X-Wings

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Plus, who could withstand an onslaught of TIE Fighters???

Only a fleet equipped with X-Wings

That is a valid point. With literally millions of TIE Fighters at their disposal, and a willingness to use them en masse indiscriminately, this is another big tactical advantage for the Empire. TIE Fighters deliver blasts the equivalent of nuclear bombs and are far faster and more manueverable than Federation ships. Since Fed ships don't have point-defense cannons, they'd be using their limited main phaser banks to try and pick off TIE Fighters. So while Imperial capital ships pound the Fed ships with turbolaser fire, the TIE Fighters will swarm them, inflicting massive damage in seconds. The Feds wouldn't have a chance.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Since Fed ships don't have point-defense cannons

Actually they do. They also have missiles as well.

[KrazyHorse]

Damn you. You got the first post in five hours.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Speed counts. In the first Star Wars series Han Solo brags that his ship can make "point 5 past light speed". Star Trek ships travel much faster, so they would be able to dart in and fire on the Star Destroyers and move out of range before the Imperials got off a shot.

Good point, except for a couple of things;

[1] The Falcon promptly traveled as little as 30,000 ly in less than a day (Tatooine to the Core, assuming wasn't on the otherside of the Core).

[2] In SW literature, there are numerous references to ".4, .5 etc" type hyperdrives.

Also Star Trek weapons would presumably pass through Imperial shields without diminishing since phasor beams phase in and out of subspace. Since the empire hasn't discovered subspace then they wouldn't be able to shield their ships against such weapons.

Hasn't discovered subspace? What the hell is the Holonet, AOL?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Mr. President
I figure the Star Trek universe has better technology. Phasers, gravitons, warp drive, time holes, Lieutenant Commander Data . . . no contest.

Warp drive< Hyperdrive
phasers < TL
gravitons(?) = Gravity well generators
Time holes? Time travel already discussed.
Data= C-f*cking-3P0!

Data is unique for his minuterization, not his "consciousnous". Hell, the NCC-1701-D's computer created conscious computer programs before.

And SW has minuterziation in spades.

[Drake Tungsten]

If all else fails for the Dune forces, they could always call in the Honored Matres to sexually control all the major leaders of both the Federation and the Empire. It would be hard to lose when your enemies are your slaves.

Dune!!!

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


That's not the case at all. The Empire has MUCH faster ships. As stated in the films, ships in Star Wars can transverse the galaxy in a matter of days. Federation ships take decades at top speed. We don't know what their notation method of speed is, so saying the ".5 past lightspeed" means anything specific is a bad assumption.

Which Galaxy? At the onset of the first episode we were told rather pointedly that the story takes place in another galaxy "far, far away". Perhaps it took place in a much smaller galaxy. I seem to recall that there is a galaxy or cluster called "M 10" or something like that composed of several thousand stars relatively compacted into a space of only a few light years across. The average distance between stars is only a few light days. Maybe that's where the Star Wars action took place?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
If all else fails for the Dune forces, they could always call in the Honored Matres to sexually control all the major leaders of both the Federation and the Empire. It would be hard to lose when your enemies are your slaves.

Dune!!!

Give it up Drake.

[Drake Tungsten]

Give it up Drake.

Why? My arguments are just as persuasive as those of the equally weak Star Trek side...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
That's not the case at all. The Empire has MUCH faster ships. As stated in the films, ships in Star Wars can transverse the galaxy in a matter of days.

So? You are assuming that their galaxy is as big as the Milky Way. This is not the case. The fact is their galaxy is a lot smaller. In fact, just a tiny itty bitty thing. The Milky Way galaxy is around 30,000 light-year across. Yours, probably like 50 ly.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Federation ships take decades at top speed.

Well, sure, because the Milky Way is so bloody big compared to the SW two-bit galaxy. One of the technical manuals for the Enterprise-D states that Warp 8 is 2⁸ times c (speed of light). That's 256 times to you mathematically challenged. It will actually take more than 117 years for a Fed ship to move from one edge of the Milky Way galaxy to the other edge. You forgot, however, that warp drives are only used when they are on patrol. Fed ships can move at transwarp speeds for strategic movement. So who is faster here?

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
We don't know what their notation method of speed is, so saying the ".5 past lightspeed" means anything specific is a bad assumption.

Even when it's said in one of the SW movies?

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Speed advantage = Empire.

Refuted.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Imperial shields are, as far as we can tell, just as good at stopping phasers as Federation shields would be.

Not so. Phasers tunnel through subspace, since ST ships fight at warp speed. If they move at lightspeed they can never hit. So phasers bypass Imperial shields.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
In addition, Imperial ships have far superior armor than Federation ships, and Federation phasers perform rather poorly against armor as opposed to Imperial turbolasers.

In a ship-to-ship battle, the advantage would be on Imperial warships.

That's nice, but since Imperial starships are incapable of engaging targets at trans-light speeds, they are just sitting ducks.