Apolyton Communist Party meeting: What is to be done?

[Az]

This is beyond selfish/altruist. This is about fair, and ethical.

Or at least, that's what I think.

[monkspider]

Re: Re: Apolyton Communist Party meeting: What is to be done?

Let me start by saying, a wonderful, wonderful, thoughtful post UberX. I am pleased that we seem agree so throughly.

I believe that if a socialist movement focused mainly on the economic aspects, it would gain a stonger foothold in the community and move on a bit quicker.

I agree strongly, and feel that this could be one of the most effective ways to gain prominence.

eh... i concur to a degree. We shouldn't just "divorce" ourselves from some of the most inpired writings of the socialist ideals. Sure, we shouldn't "bank" on them just because we think they're awe inspiring, but we shouldn't abandon them.

we should do as you said, and create modern works relating to forms of socialism. perhaps we could even address many of the faults / failures in some of the past systems, and present ideas on how to avoid / remedy them.

we should attempt to make socialism relate to the people's lives at hand, so they know exactly what the system is supposed to be. we've carried the "evil empire" label for far too long. Socialism is about brotherhood.

I agree, I think you describe how I effectively feel that Marxist literature should be treated. It should reside mostly in the background, but still highly respected. And I agree that creating modern works that people could relate to is something of great importance.

one thing that would help to a degree, is the dropping of the word Communist.

Now this is an EXCELLENT idea, I have been thinking along similar lines for a long time. The stigma attached to communism is very powerful, and would be difficult to overcome. Even socialist is slightly tainted, as you said. But what would be our new euphemism? This would be a great subject for Apolyton to tackle. If we could effectively create one that sounded nice, and didn't conjure images of Stalinism, we would be in a much stronger position. The one problem is that some current socialists and communists may object in the short term, but I think that the postives definitely outweigh the negatives here.

when someone hears commie, it's like someone called me "target". and everybody who thinks they know something is all over me. to quote one girl "you're a communist? how could you like hitler!?!?". I began to state how ignorant her question was (a bit more eloquently than i am now), that hitler opposed commies in germany, but she defended her position that Hitler was a commie, and i just walked away.

This is very true. When my girlfriend's parents first found out I was a commie, her mom soon after asked if I was into devil worship.
I still have not "come out of the closet" to my own family, who are very similar to your own "better dead than red" father.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by UberKruX


it's an innate trait that is reinforced by society. in the wild, you have to be selfish in the interest of self preservation. even packs of wolves go wild when you throw 1 piece of meat in the middle of them.

but we have overcome evolutionary traits / urges in the past. it's not impossible.

BS, humans are intelligent and social animals. You can't compare them to wolves.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by JohnT
[Voice from the back, shouting harshly]
The fact is, what y'all are peddling is just another oppressive religion. And who's buying? Have we spent the past 400 years trying to shake the more oppressive chains of Christianity just to take up the shackles of the Communists?

I think that your objection is very fair John, the past so-called communists have been very oppressive, as you imply. However, there is a far greater communism coming that does not rely force to accomplish it's means. It is built on a society that that follows Jesus' "love your neighbor as yourself" to it's logical conclusion. It is a society built around true brotherhood, rather than the "brotherhood at the point of a sword" of our Bolshevik past. Once we achieve this, that will be true freedom, a greater freedom than this world has ever seen.

The average person couldn't hope to decipher one of Marx's works in a million years.

Marx has very difficult works, perhaps you have not tried to read one of them in your lifetime, but I can assure you that the average person would have a great deal of trouble.

does little to enhance your appeal in the real world. So go ahead and use the internet as your monastary, parsing words until they can no longer be parsed, in languages increasingly disconnected from the world outside: we'll be out here living our lives, changing, growing, evolving.

One of the purposes of this meeting is to make socialism relevent to everyone, and not having to rely on the archaic dialogue that you seem to be criticizing. I am sorry John that for whatever reason past socialists have brushed you the wrong way, and that, therefore, you do not agree with us. For what it is worth, I can promise you that one day you shall, and that day will likely be sooner, rather than later.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by DuncanK


BS, humans are intelligent and social animals. You can't compare them to wolves.

you'd be suprised in the similarities in heuristics between humans and lesser-intelligent animals. read some of Khaneman & Tversky’s research, namely their report on "Heuristics and Bias in Human Reasoning".

[Ben Kenobi]

Encourage the spiritual side of socialism

Beyond everything else, socialism is our ultimate purpose on this Earth. There is nothing greater that we could do than to reach such a level of love and compassion as to achieve socialism. Most uninformed people presently think of us as the bad guys, but if people were to find out that we were not only the good guys, but also the ULTIMATE good guys, we would undoubtedly attract new people to our ideology, and with each new person joining our cause, our mission becomes much easier.

If you want these burdens, become a Christian. There is no way you can add this onto communism without rendering the term completely meaningless. The fact that you want to add this merely reinforces my conviction in the bankruptcy of communism.

John T is spot on.

Stefu: lol , especially with all those coming attractions.

[Az]

"you're a communist? how could you like hitler!?!?".

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by UberKruX
you'd be suprised in the similarities in heuristics between humans and lesser-intelligent animals. read some of Khaneman & Tversky’s research, namely their report on "Heuristics and Bias in Human Reasoning".

What proof do they offer? Did they do a study or something? I've always thought that its our social tendencies that seperate us from the animals more than our intelligence. The more social animals are the smarter ones.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by obiwan18
If you want these burdens, become a Christian.

I really think Christ would have been a Communist.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by obiwan18


If you want these burdens, become a Christian. There is no way you can add this onto communism without rendering the term completely meaningless. The fact that you want to add this merely reinforces my conviction in the bankruptcy of communism.

John T is spot on.

Stefu: lol , especially with all those coming attractions.

Obi wan my friend, the communism that you envision is nothing like the communism that is soon coming. In fact, you make an excellent case for why we need to drop the term "communism". It obviously carries with it certain assumptions that are neither correct nor productive to our cause. In reality, to be a christian (that is, to be one that follows the teachings of Jesus) is to be a "communist", the natural conclusion of Christ's teachings would inevitably lead to a state of de facto communism. The communism that is coming is built on love, brotherhood, compassion, and everything else that Jesus encouraged. But you make a good point, maybe we shouldn't call it commmunism anymore, that's a bad word.

[Lonestar]

:: walks in through back exit, shouts ::

Hey! Howabout you stop talking academic and join the real world? Over 50% of the American public's a stockholder! Recession or not, the economy is more powerful now then it ever has been! More people have jobs! Standards of living are higher!

And how did we get this far? Under the meritocracy that a Free-market economy (albeit with some restraints) creates!

So, sit back! Go to some classes! Get certified! pop open a Sam Adams, and salute reality!


Free Pie and Punch in the Apolyton Evil Capitalist Conservatives Party building across the street.

[Az]

Oh please, don't go to the religious communist debate.


You might cause a split.

[DuncanK]

I'm going to keep calling myself a communist. Why should we stop just because others don't understand what it stands for? It won't fool anyone anyway. Look at the Green Party in this country. Everyone knows they are communist.

[DuncanK]

Jesus fought against religion.

[DuncanK]

Just call me a RED!