Why are gay marriages legal but not polygamist ones?

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
What are you talking about?

the blood family requests the partner be barred

You answered our own question.

Write a will, grant power of attoney and legally disown
the "blood relatives".

Voila.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ozz


You answered our own question.

Write a will, grant power of attoney and legally disown
the "blood relatives".

Voila.

Yeah, that's so easy and efficient, as well as inexpensive...

Such measures are not failsafe, anyway. The blood relatives often challenge wills and are successful, since courts tend to hold gay partnerships in the same disregard as many people do.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Azazel

I think this is debatable.

Or do you think that this is pure genetics?

The reason I put it in quotes was because I was referring to the deliberate "making" of gays. We really have no idea what makes anyone gay, so anyone saying that homosexuals are "made," like one makes a soldier, is being silly.

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Yeah, that's so easy and efficient, as well as inexpensive...

Such measures are not failsafe, anyway. The blood relatives often challenge wills and are successful, since courts tend to hold gay partnerships in the same disregard as many people do.

Pen and paper sign and witness, don't need no stinkin'
lawyer unless big bucks are at stake.

When money is at stake, no will is failsafe, gay or no.

[Boris Godunov]

But the simple fact is that being a legally married spouse of someone will infer with the courts much greater leverage than, say, domestic partners who went through the pain of individually obtaining every sort of right that is automatically granted by a single marriage ceremony.

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
But the simple fact is that being a legally married spouse of someone will infer with the courts much greater leverage than, say, domestic partners who went through the pain of individually obtaining every sort of right that is automatically granted by a single marriage ceremony.

That is true, and that is unfair, but since when have
the courts been fair?.

Good point though. I've never believed marriage to be
fair though, since when do a childless couple deserve
a tax break cause their married?

[Boris Godunov]

Wait, what's all the talk from the right about the "marriage penalty"?

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Wait, what's all the talk from the right about the "marriage penalty"?

Not in Canada, i believe that is particlar to the US in
that your taxes can go up by getting married.

[Chemical Ollie]

In many muslim countries, polygamy is legal and gay marriage is punished by death, I suppose.

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
In many muslim countries, polygamy is legal and gay marriage is punished by death, I suppose.

You got to show financially you can afford the extra wives to the government, not for everyone.

[Ben Kenobi]

Berzerker:

You assume only the husband cares for the family, the wives also care and share the burden.

I don't. If one man has trouble keeping one wife satisfied why should we give him two? I'm not talking about financial support, but emotional and sexual. That's why I use the word 'satisfy' as opposed to 'support', as 'support' connotes financial as well as emotional aid.

No, there is a polynesian tribe and an african tribe where women have multiple husbands and this is still the practice.

Source?

Emperor Fabulous:

There's another thing that happens and is supposedly unnatural - 48% of the cases of deafness occur through unknown causes that happen while the baby is developing. Deafness is unnatural - while people who are deaf still have all the proper tools, somehow they are unable to use them.

Are children born gay, EF?
Otherwise I call false analogy.

Rufus:

I challenge anyone to find a rational argument against homosexual marriage that doesn't also apply to heterosexuals who are infertile.

I accept your challenge.

[St Leo]

Seems Humans and Hogs have more in common than apes in many cases. They are both aggressive meat
eaters.

Vegetarian Gorillas aren't the only apes in existence. Chimps are agressive meat eaters.

[Ben Kenobi]

Rufus:

Consider the types of infertility present in heterosexual couples.

Some are an accident of birth. This is not analogous to homosexuality since this is entirely outside the control of the person. Do you believe children are born gay, and cannot change their orientation as they grow up?

Some come from environmental sources over which the woman, or man has no control. This includes diseases, especially yeast infections.

One of the most common sources of infertility comes from PID, or pelvic inflammatory disease which one can only contract by engaging in sex. This is the toughest argument to make, because this would seem to be analogous to homosexuality, where the person engages in risky behavior that could lead to infertility.

However, no one wilfully persues sex in order to become infertile. Homosexuality must be acted upon in order to become expressed.

What about vasectomies and tubal litigations? If one spouse undertakes sterilisation without the consent of the other spouse, this is grounds for nullification. What does this mean? Clearly one of the purposes of marriage must be to produce children. This is not the only purpose.

I'll answer cinch's question below on the Christian definition of marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

Cinch:

Christ makes a big deal about marriage, much more so than we do today.

Reading from Matthew 19:3-6.

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked,


"Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[1]and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[2] ? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."


Now what scripture is Christ quoting here? This passage comes from


Genesis 1:27:

"So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."

This passage is one of the most important in Christianity, affirming the value of human persons, in that they are made in the image of God.

God intended to create two genders, differing from each other.

But how did God do this?


Jesus' second allusion is to Gen 2:24, in context:


Gen 2:21-24

But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh.Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, [11] '
for she was taken out of man."

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.


Now that leaves the question of why. Why would God create a helper for Adam?


Gen 2:18

The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."


Here we see that Adam needed companionship,


And from, Gen 1:28:

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

We see that God desires procreation, that man should increase and subdue the Earth. Adam and Eve before the fall are considered the model of a Christian marriage, by Christ, as we have seen from Matt 19:3-5


But we are not yet finished here. What is Christ's answer to the Pharisees?


Matt: 19:7-12

"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[3] because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."


Marriage is not meant for everyone, where the ideal is a union between one man and one women, where the two will become one flesh. Christians are not required to marry, but those who can accept, should do so.

Some other passages, not from Christ, but from Paul also serve to round out the Christian definition of Marriage:


Ephesians 5:22-29

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing[2] her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- for we are members of his body.

This is Paul's analogy between marriage and the church. One must understand the responsibilities on both sides. Paul insists that a husband must love his wife as he would his own body- that to hurt his wife is to hurt himself. A man will be expected to give his life for his wife, as Christ did for his church, while a woman is expected to submit and to trust her husband.


Ephesians 5:30-33

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[3] This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church.However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


Again, we see the repetition of the two will become one flesh.
Together both of these main passages should sum up how Christians see marriage. I hope this helps, cinch.

[cinch]

Together both of these main passages should sum up how Christians see marriage. I hope this helps, cinch.

Well, to be quite honest, I'm not sure it did. It basically just linked a Jesus quote (with an arguable meaning) to the Old Testament, which is filled with ridiculous musings and myths (Leviticus, anyone?). I was hoping more for some straight Jesus stuff, as he's the only guy in the Bible who seems to at least have a general idea of what's what.

I don't know.... No offense, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.