Man arrested for wearing "Peace" shirt at mall

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


Sure you could. If you were to close all your blinds, you would be free right now to make a rule "All people in Boris's house must be naked or they have to leave". An issue could arise if said nudity would be visible to the public, but that would be because you would be using your private property to potentially create harm to people ouside your property.

There's a substantial difference between a private house and a private business.

For example, the city of NY is preparing to enact a government-mandated smoking ban in private businesses (bars). Most places now have legal requirements on having non-smoking sections. So the right to do what one pleases on private property when it is a business that caters to the public is not sacrosanct.

[KrazyHorse]

Exactly, Boris.

Too take your example from before, AFAIK it's still legal in the US for you to bar black people etc. from your home without fear of antidiscrimination legislation...

[Shi Huangdi]

Yes, the government does sometimes place limits on what you can do with your private businesses. But as I said before, just because there are some restrictions on private property doesn't mean that no property rights exist. In general, you do get to decide what goes on in your property. There would have to be a law in place prohibiting the mall owner from doing what he did.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I doubt you could establish a nudist space without some sort of special legal permission.

I'm not entirely sure about this, but nudist camps don't have special legal permission. I'm not sure if a mall could say 'clothing optional'. Obviously none have tried.

Here's an example of government regulating nudity in private establishments:

http://gocalifornia.about.com/bl_nb_legal_sb.htm

That's just one county. So I'd say it is safe to bet most jurisdictions have similar laws.

You'll also find advocacy groups that fight against such laws, which would indicate they are pervasive:

http://www.progress.org/archive/fold34.htm

[Agathon]

The fact that anyone would even dream of doing something like this shows that the US is not a free country.

A free country does not merely have laws, it has a general tolerance among its population for the political views of others. Where I come from people wear all sorts of T-shirts. The only time someone would get hassled is if they wore a T-Shirt with swear words on it to a family restaurant, or something like that.

[Jules]

What in blazes does this have to do with nudism??? All the guy did was wear a shirt that he bought in this very same mall. Now if it was me, I probably would've complied and taken it off; in fact, I probably wouldn't have purchased such a goofy shirt in the first place. But my main concern is, what in the world was going through the mind of the security guard who initiated this confrontation??? What good was served by making trouble where there was none. Now this mall is going to have the ACLU breathing down its neck...AND FOR WHAT?!?! Why do people insist upon unleashing hell on earth because of their own feelings of personal inadequacy? "Duh, my girlfriend's giving me a hard time because I'm no good in bed, so I think I'll make an example of this peacenik here. And he's probably gay too. I'm so smart!"

[Buck Birdseed]

There's quite a simple solution to all this- don't allow malls to take over public property in the first place. Don't allow the grubby-handed politicians to steal our land and give it to their business cohorts! Save our streets from privatisation!

[Agathon]

Can some one tell me why I don't feel "free" when I'm in the US or talking to people from there?

Can some one tell me why large tracts of the country are overrun with religious lunatics who want to legislate interference into others' private lives?

Can someone explain to me the psychology of someone who would even presume to throw someone out of a semi-public place for wearing a political slogan which wasn't an incitement to hatred?

I don't get it.

[David Floyd]

Don't allow the grubby-handed politicians to steal our land and give it to their business cohorts!

Sure, as long as you don't allow the grubby-handed politicians to steal my money and give it to those who didn't earn it in order to buy votes or whatever it is they want to do.

Oh, you disagree? Kinda inconsistent, huh?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
There's quite a simple solution to all this- don't allow malls to take over public property in the first place. Don't allow the grubby-handed politicians to steal our land and give it to their business cohorts! Save our streets from privatisation!

You don't have to go that far. Malls are spiritually desolate places to be sure, but at least they tend to be kept clean. All that is needed is law that guarantees people the rights they have in public spaces in open mall space (not in individual shops though).

I hate malls - I'm about the only person who can't find anything to buy in them.

[Jules]

Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
There's quite a simple solution to all this- don't allow malls to take over public property in the first place. Don't allow the grubby-handed politicians to steal our land and give it to their business cohorts! Save our streets from privatisation!

Hiring security guards who can exercise some basic common sense in situations like this helps too.

[Buck Birdseed]

That's us using the money. We the free people. Our common property is used to do what we the free people believe it is best used for.

When our property that is part of our freedom is stolen by disgusting libertarian slaves like yourself, it is our duty as a free people to stand up against it. Otherwise we're no freer than you are, pitiful recluses without the ability to rule over ourselves.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


Sure you could. If you were to close all your blinds, you would be free right now to make a rule "All people in Boris's house must be naked or they have to leave". An issue could arise if said nudity would be visible to the public, but that would be because you would be using your private property to potentially create harm to people ouside your property.

Retail commercial property is legally in a different category from true "private" property, since the general intent is to allow members of the public more or less unrestricted access during hours of operation.

In this case, the "owner" (who or whatever that is) didn't tell the individual to leave, a couple of security guards who may or may not have legal authority did so. The legality of his removal and arrest isn't quite as cut and dried as an ordinary trespass case.

[Jules]

Originally posted by Agathon
Can someone explain to me the psychology of someone who would even presume to throw someone out of a semi-public place for wearing a political slogan which wasn't an incitement to hatred?

I don't get it.

A t-shirt that he bought from a vendor in the same mall I might add.

And I sympathize. I don't get it either.

[Ben Kenobi]

Can some one tell me why large tracts of the country are overrun with religious lunatics who want to legislate interference into others' private lives?

How different from Canada, Agathon?