Does Society Need a Lower Class?

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by DuncanK


Yes, junior high. By junior high it can be determined if a student has aptitude in certain areas like scientic reasoning or math. This is much more efficient for the individual and society. Some people think it's nice to have the opportunity to fail, but I think it's better to be pointed in the right direction. This gives you confidence, because you have the opinion of society behind you.

If we did that, we would also have to be more dedicated to making sure that everyone had a job though, because those who make the decisions have to take the responsibility.

I couldnt disagree more. I have aptitude in verbal skills, slightly (just barely, at least according to the SAT) more so than my mathmatics skills. However, i detest English, and if i were forced to be an english major (or related), just cause im good at it, i would go on a bloody rampage. People should have the choice to do what they love... this is usually what people are good at (maybe not what they are best at, but good at) anyway. Im not the best in math, but I wish to become an engineer. If i have the sjills to hack it, as tested through Uni, then i am more than fit to be an engineer

Kman

[PeteH]

"Civilization originates on conquest abroad and repression at home." - Stanley Diamond in "In Search of the Primitive "


As has been said earlier, class structures are a symptom of civilization.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by PeteH
"Civilization originates on conquest abroad and repression at home." - Stanley Diamond in "In Search of the Primitive "


As has been said earlier, class structures are a symptom of civilization.

Depends on what you consider civilized.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by UberKruX
in capitialism, yes.

when one has more another has less.

That's not true at all. If you grow the pie then everyone gets a bigger piece.

[Jon Shafer]

But the way that modern economics work is that some pieces are bigger than others, and over time the world gets hungrier. The actual size of the pieces is irrelevant.

[Spiffor]

As Trip pointed out, the "lower-classes" (i.e people who have an uninteresting job) are a direct consequence of the division of labour. It is more efficient to have a doctor practicing all day, rather than wasting time building clumsily his house, or unefficiently looking for his food (and thus let professionals do these menial jobs). It is a radical difference with hunter-gatherer societies and medieval village communities.

Trip, if you're interested with labour division, you should check Emile Durkheim's work (sociologist from late 18th century), even though he's mostly concerned with social relationships rather than the economy.
Also, there is a sociologic school who basically says "this phenomen happens because it must happen, because it serves a function in the society". This sociologic school is called Functionalism.

[Ben Kenobi]

How would one determine aptitude, DuncanK?

DuncanK:

You missed one question.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That's not true at all. If you grow the pie then everyone gets a bigger piece.

Pies don't grow.

[Imran Siddiqui]

LOL, and you are 'studying' economics?

So the GDP today is the same as it was in 1500?

[Zero]

Originally posted by UberKruX


first the mexicans, now the space monkies?

[kidding, i assure you. i have no problem with people comming to america to work. it's when they come to blow sh*t up that i flip out]

no i think you didnt get me. During the first two pages of thread people kept saying "until robots do all our work", over and over again as if robots that did our work existed there would be no lower class. The point is that There still will be a lower class. And it doesnt have to be human..... it can be the space monkeys that cross our galactic border and live on our planet as an illegal alien... You can interpret the word, alien in both ways!

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
LOL, and you are 'studying' economics?

So the GDP today is the same as it was in 1500?

In many cases though, there are more people taking a bite too.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So the GDP today is the same as it was in 1500?

The economy is not a pie, or maybe you thought is was.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by obiwan18


DuncanK:

You missed one question.

I said that you can test for it.

[Sikander]

Re: Does Society Need a Lower Class?

Are you talking about a corse, smelly, rude, violent lower class, or a loyal, thrifty, trustworthy, dedicated, inexpensive labor source lower class?

[ciaran]

Even if there were a bigger pie, the rich would not necessarily be inclined to share it with everyone else simply because it is bigger. Wanting has no end and there seems to be no reason to share what's extra with the poor, unless niceness is a reason-- which it is not. Doesn't matter if we had over one million percent in extra goods and services. Society still requires a lower class because someone needs to pick up the trash and clean up our... mess(es). No amount of money--at least in present day--will provide us with a robot that can perform the functions necessary of a janitor or a robot that will have (cheap) sex for money.

The wishful thinking of a future with robots brings up this interesting point: if you had a robot that could function as a human, then you would be dealing with an intellect that effectively does so as well (function as a human). A lower class, like someone above told me, is one that is looked upon as serving a purpose regardless of how they feel about it. This would not be dissimilar to how we feel about robots (at least currently) and what sort of services we could enjoy out of them (even though no one likes to clean a toilet).

Lastly, there is the element of human desire. Personally, I would never have robot servants. I would have human ones that I could either see visibly suffer, or sexually molest on a regular basis. Why? Because power is great, and no amount of robotic or space-monkey service would be enough to convince me otherwise. Society always needs a lower class because if we did not, there would be a vast chunk of our species that would do nothing because they have no specialised skills (which would be hopelessly beyond their maximum). Today, we have a system of slavery that is virtually no different than what we had in the deep South. Do you honestly think that earning minimum wage amounts to any degree of social or political power? Do you think that earning "six figures" amounts to any of these? Those who are raking in billions would have to disagree. We know that they would be right.

ciaran