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**Ben Kenobi** · February 27, 2003, 17:32

IIRC, some scalping laws don't prohibit reselling a ticket for its face value.

Most states set a value amount that differs from state to state. One example is NYC which charges for a 5% markup or 10 dollars which ever is greater.

That is the definition of scalping, Albert.
If you re-sell a ticket at face value, you aren't scalping the buyer.

**MRT144** · February 27, 2003, 17:36

Boris

in my original message i was going to take a crack at gays and musicals but i deemed it innapropriate

**Buck Birdseed** · February 28, 2003, 11:53

Why would venues want to forbid scalping? Their tickets get sold anyway, and they can actually charge higher prices for them as scalping prices keep the cost artificially high. Without an organised resistance by the potential customers, the two would just benefit off each other.

**PLATO** · February 28, 2003, 12:05

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

I disagree. Events such as this are limited-seating venues and so there isn't an unlimited supply of tickets. When scalpers obtain tickets, they take away from the pool of available seats, essentially holding those seats for ransom. It's not like you can just go down the block and see the same show. If I only go to New York only once every 5 years and want to see The Producers, its just not fair that the seats are all sold out because scalpers have snatched them up.

What's to stop a company from buying every seat for a popular show and then reselling them at a huge cost? Seems like it is rather unfair for both the theater and its patrons.

Boris, My point is that the original seller of the tickets is not charging enough to bring the available supply into line with the demand. As price goes up, demand goes down. If there is demand for the scalpers tickets at these prices then the original seller should charge these prices. The problem is that the original sellers are undervaluing their product. Scalpers simply bring the market into equilibrium. If the product was not worth the price scalpers are charging then people wouldn't pay it.

Additionally, I might add, nothing has an unlimited supply. For example: If GM started selling cars for $20 each then demand would sky rocket. They set their price to bring production and demand into equilibrium. If they have to strong a demand for available production they raise prices. If they have a weak demand they lower prices (i.e. rebates, low interest, etc...)

Scalping should be legal because it is only a natural market force.

**Urban Ranger** · February 28, 2003, 13:37

It's not that simple. The sellers may be selling at equilibrum, but a big scalper can generate an artificial shortage by hording the tickets, forcing the price up.

**Boris Godunov** · February 28, 2003, 14:34

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It's not that simple. The sellers may be selling at equilibrum, but a big scalper can generate an artificial shortage by hording the tickets, forcing the price up.

Exactly. The theater industry wouldn't be served by making it only so the rich could afford theater tickets.

**MRT144** · February 28, 2003, 14:38

the problem is that this is entertainment and you dont have the right to be entertained...

unless youre a gay man living in new york

you crack me up boris!

**Boris Godunov** · February 28, 2003, 14:53

Originally posted by MRT144
the problem is that this is entertainment and you dont have the right to be entertained...

unless youre a gay man living in new york

you crack me up boris!

You should quote me then in your sig. I'm already in several, and am trying to set a record for being quoted.

**MRT144** · February 28, 2003, 15:03

why not just give you my first born child?

**orange** · February 28, 2003, 15:06

going by simple supply and demand, this shows that ticket prices are in fact too low, especially for major events. The demand is so high that they would sell out if they raised their ticket prices once, twice, in some cases as much as 5 times what they sell it for.

**Zero** · February 28, 2003, 15:11

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It's not that simple. The sellers may be selling at equilibrum, but a big scalper can generate an artificial shortage by hording the tickets, forcing the price up.

As far as I know, I thought concert ticket's werent at an equilibrium. They set the price lower so that events could be sold out and cause massive hype etc..

Exactly. The theater industry wouldn't be served by making it only so the rich could afford theater tickets.

If the supply does not meet demand, there's going to be other factor's that allowes tickets to be distrubuted unequally (connections, etc)

**Sava** · February 28, 2003, 15:16

Rather than debating the morality of ticket scalping, perhaps we should look at the real-world situation, eh? I mean, by legalizing all forms of scalping, you're going to create this middle-man element where a bunch of crooks and bums will buy tickets in hopes of making money.

Ticket scalping is a lot like energy trading. Artificially inflating the prices of goods or services just so some dumbass can make some money without earning it.

**The Mad Monk** · February 28, 2003, 15:19

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

I disagree. Events such as this are limited-seating venues and so there isn't an unlimited supply of tickets. When scalpers obtain tickets, they take away from the pool of available seats, essentially holding those seats for ransom. It's not like you can just go down the block and see the same show. If I only go to New York only once every 5 years and want to see The Producers, its just not fair that the seats are all sold out because scalpers have snatched them up.

What's to stop a company from buying every seat for a popular show and then reselling them at a huge cost? Seems like it is rather unfair for both the theater and its patrons.

You mean you can't reserve the seats in advance?

**PLATO** · February 28, 2003, 15:20

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It's not that simple. The sellers may be selling at equilibrum, but a big scalper can generate an artificial shortage by hording the tickets, forcing the price up.

If, in fact, the seller was selling at the equilibrium price, then the scalper would be able to claim a higher price for some tickets, but would be left with extra tickets to sell. As some componet of demand is time related, the original equilibrium price would fall as this segment of demand fell off. The scalper would recoup this revenue by actually getting a higher price for the segment of demand that is neithier price or time sensitive. Theoretically, the scalper should end up at the same revenue as the theatre would have. This is the basis of equilibrium pricing.

Therefore, if the scalper could not anticipate a profit, they would not enter the market.

In your post you identified the shortage as artificial. That is exactly what it is.

**PLATO** · February 28, 2003, 15:24

Originally posted by Sava
Rather than debating the morality of ticket scalping, perhaps we should look at the real-world situation, eh? I mean, by legalizing all forms of scalping, you're going to create this middle-man element where a bunch of crooks and bums will buy tickets in hopes of making money.

Ticket scalping is a lot like energy trading. Artificially inflating the prices of goods or services just so some dumbass can make some money without earning it.

You cannot artificially inflate a price in a free market system. Energy trading is a poor example as the regulations involved make it less than the free market situation of ticket sales.

And lastly, Would not most retailers fall into the category of "middle men". If they do, then the analogy would call the current sale of theatre tickets as "wholesale to the public"

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