The Sunflower Dilemma - Could you forgive?

[Boris Godunov]

And with that, we declare and end to recriminations against other posters, preaching, over indignation, oversimplification, etc. in this thread.

Thanks.

[Zylka]

Ooooh my

Definitely a 500 locked thread. Yet in how long?

[loinburger]

Personally, I'd've probably kicked him in the nuts and/or berated him up down left and right, and then asked him if he was still repentant. If he was, then I'd've forgiven him.

The mother is a different matter entirely. If Karl still repented after I kicked him in the nuts, then I'd've likely told his mother the whole story. Presumably, after information about Nazi atrocities reached her ears, she would assume that Karl had taken part in them (or at the very least would have fears to this end). Better to tell her right off the bat that yes, her son was a monster, but he was nevertheless a repentant monster. Better that she know the level of her son's involvement (as well as her son's repentance) than to let her invent her own (perhaps better, perhaps worse) theories about her son's involvement.

[Zylka]

What if you told him, "Your faith in Jesus alone will determine whether you're sent to the fires with the bush and the weeds"?

[Zero]

If I was at mother's situation, I'd rather know that the son has commited atrocity but later learned that he wanted to undo things rather than know that the son only peeled potatos but wishing to kill Jews everytime he went to bed.

So I guess I'm saying that for me, actions dont necessraily define the sense of good person. Although your actions cant be entirely discredited just because you have good intentions, but I'd rather choose first son over the later one anyday.

[Urban Ranger]

Most of you probably have heard of the Nanjing Massacre.

A number of old IJA soldiers who had taken part in the atrocity was later overcame by an enormous grief. They completely renounced the actions of the IJA and their own. They are going around Japan to give accounts of their stories, facing accusations and even lawsuits from the rightwingers.

There is an old Chinese saying, "One can become a buddha on the spot by putting down the butcher knife."

So I would have forgiven Karl.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Azazel
forgiving is not punishing someone who has committed a crime

There is a difference between vengeance and justice. Forgiveness is not seeking retribution for one's own emotional satisfaction. Forgiveness is not the same as abandoning justice.

The soldier's appointment with ultimate justice is not the issue. Nor is earthly justice the issue, given his imminant death. He is compelled by his conscience to speak, and not merely to some sympathetic nurse who will say, "There, there, trouble yourself no more."

I can understand if he couldn't speak some easy words of absolution, but it would be better to say something meaningless in a compassionate tone than nothing. "I'm sorry, I don't know what to say or do."

As for the mother, tell her the young man confessed to some terrible things that had weighed on his conscience.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Look at it from a selfish viewpoint if you want, assuming a belief in God.
Just forgive him. The token effort gets chalked up on your asset side of the ledger.
Real difficult.

Look, I know you're a Texan, so I will try to be extra patient with you.

I was not looking to offend anyone with my opinions in that last post of mine, so where did your sarcasm come from?

[Boris Godunov]

MrFun, why do you insist on dredging up something long after its over? Like I said, the recriminating bickering should stop.

[Sava]

If you truly believe God to be everything, than as good as he is, he is still evil. He created everything, good and evil. I understand what you were trying to do with your comparisons, obiwan, don't worry I don't think less of you.

I think that Western Christianity's version of God being supremely good is wrong. God created both good and evil. He is inherently neutral. But this divide between Western and Orthodox Christianity goes back to the Byzantine days. I'm not sure what denomination you are obiwan, but protestantism in particular has changed it's definition of God into this beautiful ray of sunshine type God. Perhaps you need to read more of the Old Testament. Jesus was good, Jesus was a part of God... but he is not God. Satan is also a part of God. If you believe God is all powerful and such, then you can't deny this.

I personally don't believe it because it was written by man...

I actually find it quite offensive that as good as I live my life, and as good as others live there's; many Christians think that the difference between Mother Teresa and Hitler is negligible (in terms of goodness and evil).

[Boris Godunov]

Sava, that post was 100% irrelevant to the thread topic. So shut up and stop it. Thanks.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
MrFun, why do you insist on dredging up something long after its over? Like I said, the recriminating bickering should stop.

Um -- because I have a life and as a result, I just got back to this thread tonight and saw his comment for the first time?

So what was old news for you, is new news for me. Anyway, I gave my opinion -- a legitimate one.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sava- pm me or start another thread.

Ok?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun


Um -- because I have a life and as a result, I just got back to this thread tonight and saw his comment for the first time?

So what was old news for you, is new news for me. Anyway, I gave my opinion -- a legitimate one.

None of that explains why you insist on continuing in ***-for-tat exchanges when asked already to stop.

And no one thinks your opinions are any more or less legitimate than any one else's, so stop being so defensive about them.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Sava, that post was 100% irrelevant to the thread topic. So shut up and stop it. Thanks.

Valiant effort, but ultimately futile. You can't really keep any control over any threads you have started on 'Poly, particularly in Off Topic.