The Sunflower Dilemma - Could you forgive?

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Maybe, just maybe, if you were existing as a Jewish slave in a Nazi concentration camp, and were subjected to the worst horrors imaginable on a daily basis, you'd possibly feel differently about it being a "real difficult" decision?

Not "real difficult" NO, then I would have offed him

If I survived a Nazi concentration camp,
I would have offed the mom too,

[Ben Kenobi]

He did believe Karl's remorse was genuine, but he also points out it was a deathbed confession.

Boris:
It does not matter to Christ whether the man confesses the moment before he dies, or 50 years in advance. They get the same wage for the same work.

I think the Jewish fellow should have forgiven the Nazi if he believed the Nazi was truly repentant.

One thing to keep in mind is that Karl's mom might have been comforted by her son expressing regret and anguish over what he had done, as that would have given her an indication of where he was going to spend eternity, considering her belief structure.

Well said, DanS

I agree wholeheartedly. The women would see her son's repentance as indicative that he was saved. Remember the story says she was Catholic.

I seem to remember way back in the recesses of my brain some bit of Catholic doctrine which says that in a pinch anybody can hear a confession.

Adam Smith:
You are referring to the doctrine of Extreme Unction. The same is with Catholic baptism, a Jewish doctor can baptise a baby who is about to die.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Could you possibly post an opinion without sneering at other people's feelings on the matter?

Maybe, just maybe, if you were existing as a Jewish slave in a Nazi concentration camp, and were subjected to the worst horrors imaginable on a daily basis, you'd possibly feel differently about it being a "real difficult" decision?

Do you think you'd find it so easy to forgive if you knew that, once you left the room, you'd go back to being on death's edge, at the mercy of sadistic SS men who could kill you on a whim?

You are SO much one to talk, Boris.

Did I say it would be easy to forgive? No.
Did I say I was Nazi sympathizer? No.

Had I said blow the SS fuker's head smooth off, you'd have come back at me with argument.

It doesn't matter. All I said was have compassion for one dying man who doesn't mean squat in the machinery of Nazism.
To be better than he was.

Somehow, you twist it so you can jump my ass, yet again.



Peckerhead.

[chequita guevara]

I'm not gonna salve that monster's conscience. He's done nothing to warrent a belief that his "repentence" is genuine. For all we can tell, he's motivated not be a guine disgust with himself, but by fear of the all-mighty. Maybe if he'd shot an officer or something, I'd be inclined to believe him.

[Az]

I think you're too harsh, che. I don't say that I would've forgiven him, but... well, I'd say him what I said previously.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Did I say it would be easy to forgive? No.

Originally posted by SlowwHand Just forgive him. The token effort gets chalked up on your asset side of the ledger.
Real difficult

Did I say I was Nazi sympathizer? No.

Did I say you were? No.

Somehow, you twist it so you can jump my ass, yet again.

I said nothing criticizing your opinion on the subject at hand, what I objected to was your obnoxious, sanctimonious "my opinion is better than yours" atttitude that you've put in almost every post. "Look at me, I'm more compassionate than anyone!" You've pretty much been the sole twit in this entire thread, which was meant to be about a very serious subject.

Peckerhead.

Rest my case. Now you can stay out of my thread, since you've shown you are incapable of posting anything mature.

[SlowwHand]

"For all we can tell, he's motivated not be a genuine disgust with himself, but by fear of the all-mighty"


The difference being... ?

[Ben Kenobi]

He's done nothing to warrent a belief that his "repentence" is genuine. For all we can tell, he's motivated not be a guine disgust with himself, but by fear of the all-mighty.

Che, isn't that what repentence is all about? Fear of God? Why repent unless you fear the consequences of your previous actions?

[Az]

The above statement shows all that is wrong about christian ethics.

[Adam Smith]

Che, isn't that what repentence is all about? Fear of God? Why repent unless you fear the consequences of your previous actions?

Because you see the harm they have done.

So I don't see this as a flaw in Christian ethics, Azazel.

(Azazel snuck a post in on me.)

[Sava]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I disagree. I don't believe you are the most compassionate. Your compassion is for a monster who committed a crime against humanity, not for the humanity which this monster helped destroy.

I would have told the man, "I will not forgive you, and God will not forgive you either." I would also have told his mother what her son had done. When it comes to the Holocaust, "Never forgive. Never forget."

[Sava]

Originally posted by Azazel
The above statement shows all that is wrong about christian ethics.

again...

it's a nice loophole... repent on your deathbed and you're immediately forgiven!

[Az]

I wouldn't see it as a loophole, It's actually very consistent with the idea of God. The idea is where the problem lies, IMO.

[Sava]

too little too late IMO...' burn in hell 4sshole' is what I would have said.

[Az]

So I don't see this as a flaw in Christian ethics, Azazel.

I REALLY don't want to sidetrack this thread, but saying that something is wrong because Someone may punish you, is flawed, IMO.

The fact that this Someone is supposedly a friendly happiness spreading dude, is irrelevant, because it doesn't matter, because the reason for obeying this Someone's wishes is fear of him, which surely would remain ( and perhaps would be intensified ) if he was a bloodthirsty evil maniac.