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**Tingkai** · February 20, 2003, 00:48

Originally posted by Asher

You have so. In a thread on Apolyton quite a while ago.

Asher, you are wrong. You don't understand what I have written so don't try to quote me.

This is a simple request. I'm not interested in explaining things to you. It is a waste of my time.

**Asher** · February 20, 2003, 00:53

Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher, you are wrong. You don't understand what I have written so don't try to quote me.

This is a simple request. I'm not interested in explaining things to you. It is a waste of my time.

I am certainly not wrong, but I can understand why you're trying to distance yourself from your previous comments...

6K Year old man:

Again... why would the US not drive a hard bargain with Alberta, simply because they knew Alberta had no other option?

Do you understand how Canada/US oil works, in the slightest?

**Tingkai** · February 20, 2003, 00:56

**Asher** · February 20, 2003, 00:58

Tingkai, you certainly did say if Alberta voted Liberal the Liberals would listen to what we wanted.

You're denying it now, while at the same time "standing by what you said", and also threw in the typical "everyone is laughing at you" crap which never works when it comes from you.

Apolyton's search feature sucks, it claims only 3 threads ever existed with "Tingkai" and "Liberal" both in them (which is obviously wrong), so I can't bring up the thread.

I'm sure people like NYE remember it, though...maybe even RedFred?

Edit: Sweet, nice retraction. Slick stuff.

**cinch** · February 20, 2003, 01:12

I am Albertan. I am not a seperatist. BEHOLD!

I tend to think of myself as pretty left-leaning, especially for my location, yet I still have a damn lot to complain about in regards to Ottawa running roughshod over the West.

Gun Registry: ONE BILLION?! That's not a mistake, that's a friggin' catastrophe!

Senate Reform: This is probably the thing I believe most strongly in. There is absolutely no reason why this hasn't been implemented already. An appointed legislative body?! Blech!

Kyoto: No Comment.

Do I think Alberta should seperate? No. I think Canada's a fantastic country, and we just have to work within the system. How we'll accomplish that, I don't really know... I'm not a political strategist. But I believe it can be done. I am a Canadian first, an Albertan second.

However, I see no harm in Ralphie's latest musings. He's just trying his best to get Ottawa to take notice, and I can't fault him for that. But I don't take seperation into serious consideration.

**St Leo** · February 20, 2003, 01:12

Out of curiousity, why isn't the National Post a "reputable newspaper"?
Is it because it started its life off as the "Financial Post" and businesses are evil?

No, because every time I've picked up a copy (and I've done that since they ditched Lord Conrad Black) the stories it's running are questionable and the angle absurd.

And to play your games, if you want to refute it, could you please cite ANY source? It's incredibly annoying for you to refute it/question it and offer NOTHING in return.

I don't want to refute it. I see nothing wrong with the claim that Albertans are disgruntled. They have no reason to be disgruntled, but I am convinced that they are disgruntled.

**Gatekeeper** · February 20, 2003, 05:43

Originally posted by obiwan18
If the US wants BC and Alberta, they can try to take us.

OK, it's a deal. Are you good at poker?

Gatekeeper

**SirTweek** · February 20, 2003, 06:36

I would go for western seperation if it included Alberta and BC also possible Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Unfortunately this would never happen and I would never agree to be part of the US. I got a good laugh though about how we would try to 'get out of paying our share of the debt' isn't that how eastreners see Alberta as a giant bag of money. Alberta's oil is a giant asset, there is a huge amount of oil reserves here it would be enough to keep us going.

**Drake Tungsten** · February 20, 2003, 07:22

This thread has made me wonder what a Canadian Civil War would be like. I keep imagining Gettysburg, only with a lot less people armed with hockey sticks...

**Richelieu** · February 20, 2003, 08:15

I guess those "Joe Canadian" adds didn't work after all. That's what happens when you rely on a beer add to define your identity.

**KrazyHorse** · February 20, 2003, 08:22

Originally posted by Asher
10% of the population doesn't mean we get 0 say. Especially considering all of the money this province brings in.

It shouldn't be an all-or-nothing thing.

You have 10% of the say. You're just pissed off that the CRAP is seen as such by 80% of Canadians.

**KrazyHorse** · February 20, 2003, 08:23

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man

Why would anyone (Canada, presumably) just let Alberta ship oil through their territory? Again, you're presuming that Alberta will just ask, and be given...

You guys have a LOT in common with Quebec... next thing, you'll want to keep the passport and walk out on your share of the debt

**KrazyHorse** · February 20, 2003, 08:27

Originally posted by cinch
Senate Reform: This is probably the thing I believe most strongly in. There is absolutely no reason why this hasn't been implemented already. An appointed legislative body?! Blech!

The Senate has the power to delay bills by 90 days. That's it. It's a useless body. Should probably be scrapped, but who cares?

Do I think Alberta should seperate? No. I think Canada's a fantastic country, and we just have to work within the system. How we'll accomplish that, I don't really know... I'm not a political strategist. But I believe it can be done. I am a Canadian first, an Albertan second.

However, I see no harm in Ralphie's latest musings. He's just trying his best to get Ottawa to take notice, and I can't fault him for that. But I don't take seperation into serious consideration.

Neither does anybody else, as far as Alberta's concerned. That means that his strategy just makes him look like a whiner. Even for Quebec the separatism thing stopped working about 5 years ago...

**Wezil** · February 20, 2003, 10:46

I'm one 'central' Canadian that can sympathise with Western alienation. The structure of our Fdereal system ensures the West can and will be ignored. This is not just a current phenom.

Kyoto has been referred to earlier as a recent source of discontent for good reason. It is not only that the accord was passed against the objections of Alberta (Fed policy CAN'T please everyone...). The kick in the pants to Alberta was the exemption given to the automotive industry in Ontario. It helps that some 100 MP's came from Ontario.... How's that for fair?

Will Alberta separate? Not likely at all. Their options are limited. As with Quebec they can stand alone as a separate political entity (reduced standard of living) or they can attempt to join the US (trading one unconcerned master for another?) - neither option is overly appealing I would suspect.

Assorted thoughts on previous thread posts:

CA vs Tories - Give me a break. The Tories (quasi-Libs) are dead as a conservative voice in this country. They can keep offering themselves up as an alternative to the Libs on the east coast (ie alternate paymasters) but they have no conservative credentials or appeal anywhere else (Joe won his riding in Alberta on the 'gay vote' - there's a 'conservative' for you

). That said, the CA needs to get it's **** together. If it really wants to make inroads into eastern Canada it needs to put forward a leader and platform a little more palatable.

The National Post - I don't read it personally (just not on my list of papers) but I am glad there is a publication that doesn't spew the standard central Canadian spin spouted by the other papers previously mentioned (Star - Liberal party organ, Globe and Mail - pretentious in the extreme).

**cinch** · February 20, 2003, 11:21

The Senate has the power to delay bills by 90 days. That's it. It's a useless body. Should probably be scrapped, but who cares?

If it were reformed so that it resembled the American senate, with equal representation from all provinces, then it could act as a counterbalance to the current House of Commons "tyranny of the majority".

Why don't we just call it the House of Lords, then, if we're just going to leave it as is? Calling it the senate is just misleading...

Neither does anybody else, as far as Alberta's concerned. That means that his strategy just makes him look like a whiner. Even for Quebec the separatism thing stopped working about 5 years ago...

That's true. I never said his plan would work, but I just can't blame him for trying, you know? Nothing else seems to work.

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Klein warns Ottawa of separation threat

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