Chirac Says Eastern Europeans Are "Infantile" and should shut up!

[CerberusIV]

Chirac, like any french politician, is worried about the costs of EU enlargement. If the Common Agricultural Policy is changed to make more money available to the new EU members then french farmers will be amongst the losers. They have a powerful lobby that few french politicians would willingly upset. So this is more Chirac trying to put the new EU members in their place than about Iraq or foreign policy.

The US administration is suffering a similar problem, the message that goes down well domestically upsets the rest of the world.

[TheStinger]

Down with the CAP

[Alexander's Horse]

Basically the whole Western alliance is squabbling and falling into a shambolic heap - Osama must be pleased.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
You're certainly free to your opinion, but there's really no need to direct baseless insults at Blair and Powell. They're the only intelligent leaders left in this whole ordeal...

Why do they need to resort to lies then? I once respected them both, but since that poor performance in the UNSC, trying to prove the presence of WMDs in Iraq, their reputation is forever tainted (Blairs even more than Powells)

[Maroule]

in the end, let's not be naive, that's a classical example of diplomatic power play :

- rumsfeld tries to divide Europe, by talking of a 'old' and 'new' (east) europe, and gathering support there to undermine a position itself undermining the US policies. He has a lever to convince poland, czech, bulgarians because these countries feel the US liberated them and still protects them from a possible Russian resurgence. Fair enough, he plays for his side, nothing surprising here.

- Chirac plays the very same game, using the lever of the EU : if you play too much on the US side, you won't be able to have the cake and eat it. Again, that's perfectly logical.

Both play the same game. So let's grow up a bit here and stop the 'you're bad, no you're bad' mindless arguing.

[Alexander's Horse]

Except Eastern Europe needs Western Europe more than they need the US - they all are desperate to join the EU. Chirac was reminding them of that - and also showing "old Europe" could also play hardball.

[KrazyHorse]

This is what I don't undersand. Some of them are forgetting which side their bread is buttered on...

[Alexander's Horse]

I've had some dealings with the Eastern Euro governments and some of them really have their head in the clouds.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Maroule
He has a lever to convince poland, czech, bulgarians because these countries feel the US liberated them and still protects them from a possible Russian resurgence.

So the United States liberated the Poles, Czechs and Bulgarians? Thanks for the history lesson. I always thought it was the Soviet Union, who liberated them from occupation. Since they have overthrown their communist governments also without American help, they don't have any debts towards America, at least not as much as France.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


So the United States liberated the Poles, Czechs and Bulgarians? Thanks for the history lesson. I always thought it was the Soviet Union, who liberated them from occupation. Since they have overthrown their communist governments also without American help, they don't have any debts towards America, at least not as much as France.

There is this myth that the US "won" the Cold War. It sounds better than saying the Russians gave up and went home - "draw due to lack of interest/something else to do" just isn't impressive.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
There is this myth that the US "won" the Cold War. It sounds better than saying the Russians gave up and went home - "draw due to lack of interest/something else to do" just isn't impressive.

I happen to be from Eastern Germany and can assure you, that people there love this "we won the cold war and liberated you from communism" attitude. If it wasn't for the Soviet Union, the revolts of 1989 would have certainly failed. Tian'anmen, anyone? And as far as I remember these days, it was the name "Gorbachev" the people called in the streets. It was not Bush senior and certainly not Thatcher, even if it hurts.

[SpencerH]

So why did the soviets not continue to maintain control of the Warsaw Pact countries? Some kind of altruistic mindset just overcame the soviet politburo?

The soviets couldnt afford to keep up with the economic pressure from Reagans military expansion. This caused discord amongst the populace and allowed for new leaders like Gorby to take power (once the old stalinists died off). Its unlikely that the soviet hegemony would have collapsed without the economic competition with the US and in that respect, yes the US did 'win' the cold war.

[HershOstropoler]

"Its unlikely that the soviet hegemony would have collapsed without the economic competition with the US and in that respect, yes the US did 'win' the cold war."

The USSR could have continued to compete and delay its collapse. The USSR could have simply reduced military spending - its collapse ows more to the paranoid nature of its policies than the pressure. Gorbachev essentially took a gamble on reform and lost.

The Reagan arms buildup maybe accelerated the process, but its not so much that the US (or the West) won, more that the Commies lost. And key to that was that even the party elites either resignated or opted for reform, given a rotten economy going nowhere. If economic pressure from the US collapsed the USSR, why does North Korea not collapse?

[DanS]

I think it's funny that AH is trying to justify Chirac blowing his stack and being quite indelicate. What's it to Chirac, anyway? It's not like the EU has common foreign or defense policies. And who now provides the security guarantees? Not the EU...

[axi]

My Master's Degree was in Political science

Where the world has come to?

"Americanism: an infantile disorder of Europaism."
by Vladimir Illych Chiracin

If I were France and Germany, I would pump up my weapons industry and I would blackmail the eastern european countries to buy my weapons instead of american ones, if they want any EU money at all. Because after all, that's what the Americans are after: that's the only meaningful transaction they can have with those countries.