Chirac Says Eastern Europeans Are "Infantile" and should shut up!

[HershOstropoler]

1. Andropov was far from a redical reformer but he saw the needs for some reforms. Gorbachev was his protegee IIRC.

"Because they were already spending 40% of their GNP on the military."

More like 10-15 %. Where do you get such a big number?

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Japher
Is Germany in Eastern Europe? Where is the line?

Technically they are Western Europe, but they are kind of on the line.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DuncanK
Let's see, American diplomats were able to convince Eastern Europe as a whole that France was a disloyal friend. Chirac then demonstrated this by opening his huge mouth and attacking Eastern Europe. I think it is Chirac that is of great benefit to American Diplomacy.

Nah, what they did was to "conveince" some of themto write a really meaningless letter for impression purposes/ american domestic consumption, telling them that it wouldn't be a great deal if they did.

Just to satisfy the "we need a friend" pathology of the Americans

Actually there is no "American Diplomacy" to be helped by Chirac.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"Actually the brits are in much more dire need of that."

No, they are in need of realising something else: That there is a difference between a great power and an ass puppet that tries to behave like a great power.

You guys want to have it two ways. On the one hand you say France should have every right to oppose the US, on the other hand you say UK should not support the US. Obvious bias.

[Arrian]

There is this myth that the US "won" the Cold War.

There is also this myth about NASA putting men on the moon, but all reasonable people know that it was just American propoganda.

I would say that "The West won the Cold War" would be a more accurate statement than "The US won the Cold War."

-Arrian

[Bereta_Eder]

Well even the Brits are saying that Blair is Bush's little puppy...

I don't recall any such sayings from the French people about Chirac. (just that he was much better than the "other" choice )

[Straybow]

No, I doubt the US asked anybody to write anything. Both letters were their own work. Or do you think that anyone who agrees with the US only does so because they're too feeble to think and must crib from our answer sheet?

[HershOstropoler]

"You guys want to have it two ways. On the one hand you say France should have every right to oppose the US, on the other hand you say UK should not support the US. Obvious bias."

I say that France and Britain should form their opinion independant of the US position. That includes every right to oppose the US position, as it includes every right to support the US position. That is equally directed against an instinctive french opposition, as against Britain's puppet problem.

There's only a bias in this if you think every opposition against the US is biased. Which is a biased opinion.

[Bereta_Eder]

I'd think that even you would realize that this was an "orchastrated" little impression move to counter the recent France-Germany "no war" declaration.
I guess not.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Wouldn't bet on it, Frogger. The USA's economy is vast and fully integrated (contrast this with the EU's economy which is vast and still integrating). Open access to a big market is open access to a big market, and if they're gonna be asked to make a choice, we could certainly provide them with a viable alternative.

-=Vel=-

Have you invented a transport system that negates the effects of time and distance? No? Until then the US can't absorb a tenth as many goods from eastern europe as western europe can. Hell, the benelux countries alone probably represent a bigger market to eastern europe than the entire US does...

[Bereta_Eder]

I think it's clear that they think that every opinion which does not support the US one is wrong.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"You guys want to have it two ways. On the one hand you say France should have every right to oppose the US, on the other hand you say UK should not support the US. Obvious bias."

I say that France and Britain should form their opinion independant of the US position. That includes every right to oppose the US position, as it includes every right to support the US position. That is equally directed against an instinctive french opposition, as against Britain's puppet problem.

There's only a bias in this if you think every opposition against the US is biased. Which is a biased opinion.

I think France should have every right to oppose the US position. But manipulating other countries to do the same is where I draw the line.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Yep....and the sun would never set on the British Empire.

Keep tellin' yourself stuff like that, Paiktis....

HO - yep...misread you. Apologies there. I still, however, disagree. IF we put our minds to it and set about creating a Transatlantic Union with the ones that Chirac throws back, my guess is we could make it work.

Of course, it won't come to that....nonetheless, someone should maybe remind France that it's empire is....gone?

-=Vel=-

Vel...I'd love to join the EU and get the hell away from the US.

But I'm a realist. That 4000 km of ocean means that you get 85% of our foreign trade and the EU gets 10%

We even get ~35% of your foreign trade with 30 million people. Doesn't matter how open you make the border with Europe; it still costs more to ship it across the Atlantic than it does to ship it next door.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Frogger


Have you invented a transport system that negates the effects of time and distance? No? Until then the US can't absorb a tenth as many goods from eastern europe as western europe can. Hell, the benelux countries alone probably represent a bigger market to eastern europe than the entire US does...

Transpotation would be more expensive, but that's what subsidies are for.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DuncanK


I think France should have every right to oppose the US position. But manipulating other countries to do the same is where I draw the line.

LOL. Actually that's what the US tries to do