Chirac Says Eastern Europeans Are "Infantile" and should shut up!

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DuncanK


Transpotation would be more expensive, but that's what subsidies are for.

Are you out of your mind?

You can say "subsidies" glibly, but it would cost you (American taxpayers) tens of billions of dollars a year.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DuncanK


Transpotation would be more expensive, but that's what subsidies are for.

Completely unrealistic. Reminds me of Rumsfield's "diplomacy"

[DanS]

More like 10-15 %.

A good article on the budget. US figures say 15-17%, but the Soviets themselves came out with wildly higher numbers. 1/3. 1/2.

http://intellit.muskingum.edu/russia_folder/pcw_era/sect_05.htm

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by paiktis22
LOL. Actually that's what the US tries to do

We seem to be better at it though given the Eastern European reaction to France's threats and insults.

[Bereta_Eder]

Not really. You only got a letter after all and that's all you could get

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Frogger


Are you out of your mind?

You can say "subsidies" glibly, but it would cost you (American taxpayers) tens of billions of dollars a year.

Tens of billions is not really that much. It could be done. I'm not saying it will, but it could. Really we did it in the cold war a few times. Give countries aid and give them special access to your markets.

[DinoDoc]

Apparently we got more that that if Monk is correct.

[Bereta_Eder]

You could never compete with the EU.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Apparently we got more that that if Monk is correct.

I'm always up for entertainment. What do you think you've got?

[HershOstropoler]

Dan:

"A good article on the budget. US figures say 15-17%, but the Soviets themselves came out with wildly higher numbers. 1/3. 1/2."

Looks implausible. The US overestimated USSR GDP somewhat, but when we look at around 1990, I thinkUS GDP was about 5 trillion $ with 300 billion for defense. USSR should have been 1.5-2 trillion. A third to half of that would make for 500 billion - 1 trillion $. That sounds totally unrealistic, given the actual strength of the soviet military compared to the west.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
1. Andropov was far from a redical reformer but he saw the needs for some reforms. Gorbachev was his protegee IIRC.

"Because they were already spending 40% of their GNP on the military."

More like 10-15 %. Where do you get such a big number?

The Central Intelligence Agency estimates the Soviet defense burden at 15 to 17 percent of gross national product, while a European specialist puts it at 22 to 30 percent.(7)

(7) Central Intelligence Agency and Defense Intelligence Agency, "The Soviet Economy in 1988: Gorbachev Changes Course," Report to the Joint Economic Committee, April 14, 1989, p. 18; Aslund, Gorbachev's Struggle, p. 15; see also Philip Hanson, "A Defense Spending Mystery," Report on the USSR, April 21, 1989, pp. 18-20; Michael Dobbs, "Gorbachev Bares Budget for Military," Washington Post, May 31, 1989.

Keep in mind that those are 1988 estimates when their military spending was decreasing. Also remember that money goes to support the military that isnt direct military spending. 40% was the number in my memory from when I cared about such stuff (early 1980's). It may be a little high.

[HershOstropoler]

I wasn't aware of serious estimates that go beyond 20 %. It's entirely possible, I just think it's more of an outlyer.

"Also remember that money goes to support the military that isnt direct military spending."

The macroeconomic defense burden should account for that all.

[DanS]

That sounds totally unrealistic, given the actual strength of the soviet military compared to the west.

Well, the Soviet Union put up about 3x the military space hardware that the US did. Not that it was of such high quality, but still. If this is any indication of what was happening in other areas...

Suffice to say, a real increase of 3% on any significant base in a time of decreasing GNP would be excruciating.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by paiktis22
You could never compete with the EU.

You mean we could never compete with France and Germany. Please, stop. Their economy is puny in comparison.

[HershOstropoler]

"If this is any indication of what was happening in other areas..."

I'm really going on rough memories here, but I think eg there were 50.000 soviet tanks vs 20-25.000 of NATO. A lot of the soviet ones were mothballed old designs. And the USSR concentrated on tanks. Having twice the western defense spending should have given a much larger mass of modern tanks, should it not?