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Chirac Says Eastern Europeans Are "Infantile" and should shut up!

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  • #46
    Actually, there are two levels of power-struggle when it comes to the future of the EU :

    - between countries : France and Germany have traditionally been the motor of the European Integration, and can be credited with nearly everything ambitious the EU has done (enlargment, common agriculture policy, development policy, common monetary policy, common currency etc.). However, other big countries now are tired to modify French-German longrange decision only at the margin. This especially goes for Britain, which has lost its willingness to let the EU being a free-trade zone, and which now wants to get much more involved.
    Also, small States fear to become completely unsignificant with the enlargement.

    - between indicidual countries and supranational institutions. This is a bit tricky to explain. There are two different logics in the EU : intergovernmentalism and supranationalism.
    Intergovernmental relations means the haggling between countries (represented by miniters) has the most power. In the end, Nation-states get to decide according to their specific interests.
    Suprnational decisions are taken by EU-institutions who look for the greater good of the Union, and not the good of individual countries. The European Parliament, for instance, is a supranational institution.

    Until now, all important steps have followed the intergovernmental logic, i.e they are treaties which can or cannot may be ratified by the countries. All the founding texts of the EU are treaties mangled together. These treaties delegate power to supranational institutions (Eurozone States have no monetary sovereignity anymore, for instance), but these supranational institutions cannot get more responsibilities without a new treaty needing to be signed.
    The incoming European constitution may give much more weight to supranational institutions in deciding the future of Europe. To most State leaders, that's a danger.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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    • #47
      thanks for reminding me my first year in university

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      • #48
        Paiki :
        some decisions taken in the Minister Council still need unanimity of all countries, or have a simple majority (i.e 1 country = 1 vote). Even if these occurences get more rare all the time, the new countries have as much power as France on some regards. You know it is stupid to piss a country who has a veto power

        Edit : my above post was rather directed towards Americans, who don't know how EU works (hell, even Europeans don't know how EU works... Are you studying political sciences, law or something ?)
        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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        • #49
          yeah, yeah I know all about it

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          • #50
            The first pillar is almost completely with special majority in the council of ministers already.
            The other 2 are up for veto mostly. And it is the last resort really. Besides the last 2 pillars aren't solidified yet. Not that there exists no serious matters for a veto to be threatened (take expansion for example )

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Spiffor
              Edit : my above post was rather directed towards Americans, who don't know how EU works (hell, even Europeans don't know how EU works... Are you studying political sciences, law or something ?)
              You're right most europeans don't know either My Master's Degree was in Political science

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              • #52
                We all know the Greeks will veto the exapnsion to Turkey, when the rest of the EU will stop chickening out and accept Turkey already (in some centuries)
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                Comment


                • #53
                  I thought you were a journalist.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Spiffor
                    We all know the Greeks will veto the exapnsion to Turkey, when the rest of the EU will stop chickening out and accept Turkey already (in some centuries)
                    Actually we won't IF Turkey has become democratic, respects human rights, has resolved all disputes with us and is no longer hostile. (Lots of IFs I know )

                    DD: And journalists are supposed to have finished only highschool?

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                    • #55
                      They usually don't have degrees in Political Science. I would have also pegged a person with a Master's degree as being a better troll.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                      • #56
                        Maybe in the US that is so ...

                        edit for your edit: about the troll, I think I'm a pretty good one. Still you got to work with what's around you.
                        Last edited by Bereta_Eder; February 18, 2003, 00:52.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Chirac Says Eastern Europeans Are "Infantile" and should shut up!

                          Originally posted by DanS
                          It's true! He also threatened them with no EU membership for supporting the rest of the EU in supporting the US.
                          Dan, how many EU members are supporting the US for the invasion of Iraq? Remember, UK doesn't count.
                          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                          • #58


                            Great article, DanS. Hopefully we won't have to hear about how great the Euros are at diplomacy anymore...
                            KH FOR OWNER!
                            ASHER FOR CEO!!
                            GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by paiktis22
                              EU unification has nothing to do with the US one.
                              Completely different statuses.
                              You're absolutely right.

                              Unlike the US unification, the entities coming together are not from nearly identical cultural backgrounds. In the EU case, it is even more important to keep the smaller, 'weaker' ones from getting stepped on, or resentment is sure to develop.
                              No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by DanS
                                We went through this 210 years ago. There has to be some compromise of power between large and small states. Power plays don't go toward solving this fundamental issue. I would have thought that France and Germany would have realized this.


                                considering the foreign policy under the Bush administration, this has to be the funniest post of the whole thread


                                we call that 'la paille et la poutre' : you object of us having a straw in our eyes, while you have a whole tree there

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