Massive World Protests Tomorrow

[axi]

In many big European and American cities the cold was freezing and in some there was snow. The only place I've heard the weather was actually good was Athens. Here it was a wonderful day, while 2 days ago, we had a blizzard and the whole country was covered in snow.

Attendance in demonstrations is not linearly dependent on the numbe rof people that support their cause. There is a limit to the number of people who would demonstrate for anything, ever. There are family people who can't leave their kids alone and that in Athens matters alot, since the police showed zero tolerance and drowned us in teargas. Family people cannot participate under such conditions. There is the hardship factor, which depends on the weather and the expected walking distance, which is bigger as the demo gets bigger (due to the cessation of all transportation but the metro).

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If Bush is smart enough to wiggle another U.N. resolution through then the vast majority of protesters will probably shut up just like they did last time.

They would, but the chances of a resolution in the timeframe Bush wants is remote.

[KrazyHorse]

Oerdin, the level of support for action during gulf war I was about the same or lower than it is now in the US.

The level of support was a hell of a lot higher through the rest of the world (Europe and the Arabs most notably). We know the US doesn't really care about the rest of the world, but Canada has a long history of wanting multilateralism. That's actually one of the 3 pillars of our current foreign policy.

So when Europe says no to war, a lot of Canadians pay attention, and so does our government. When the two sides disagree, as they do now, the Canadian position is usually to try to stay out of it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oerdin
In Gulf war one I remember lots of "peace" protests lead by leftist types. They didn't even think we should intervine when Iraq invaded Kuwait. As far as they were concerned the military should be disbanded and if we just showed our love for people like Saddam then they would be converted to socialism and give up their evil ways.

They wanted a peaceful solution. It is reasonably well documented that Iraq was prepared to withdraw from Kuwait with minor (i.e. face saving and no more) concessions. Bush Sr. for some reason refused. 12 years later and look at the mess now.

This time is different - Saddam hasn't violated the UN Charter by invading one of his neighbours and GWB has made noises to the effect that this is just the first war before the other members of the "Axis of Evil" are attacked. Thats why the North Koreans are so jumpy.

If Bush came out to the American public and said, "look I want to wage a series of agressive pre-emptive wars against countries which are a geostrategic impediment to US hegemony", how many people, excluding the right wing loons that post to this site, would find that an appealing prospect? Yet that is what he is doing if I read him right.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Agathon
...and for those that think its a "p*ss in a pot" as someone said, I'd remind you that the actual protests are usually just the tip of the iceberg.

Quick straw poll...

How many anti-war people here actually went to a march?

I didn't, it was cold outside and there was ManU Vs Arsenal FA footy and the start of the six nations today...

[Asher]

I'm sorry I'll have to be a little more clear in connecting the dots for you, apparently I can't leave that job for you.

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Are you honestly naive enough to think that I'm naive enough to think Bush cares either way?

Did I say that? No.

So stop being so childish...

Bush may not...

But you forget that Blair is a public opinion ratings whore, so it might rattle him. Same with Berlusconi...

Nations such as France and Germany will feel vindicated that the largest crowds on the day appeared in pro war countries (UK, Italy, Spain) and will become even more entrenched - at this rate the weapons inspectors will have to uncover a 100 megaton nuke aimed at Bush's Texas ranch to change their minds now...

Okay, and do you think Bush cares if France cares? If Germany cares? Hell, if BRITAIN cares?

He's lobbying for international support because it makes his job easier. He's a Texan and he wants to topple Saddam, whether someone in a beret or with a bratwurst says no won't phase him.

It's a bit of a reality check to realize you and your countries can't do a damn thing about it, but perhaps it's time you realized it and stopped wasting your time?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Quick straw poll...

How many anti-war people here actually went to a march?

I didn't, it was cold outside and there was ManU Vs Arsenal FA footy and the start of the six nations today...

You have no excuse; you live in Britain.

I didn't go because it was actual Canadian cold outside and I didn't want to lose any fingers to frostbite.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Speak of the devil and the devil comes.

Looking at your avatar, I´ll let that pass as a compliment... this time.

[Chemical Ollie]

I am against the f*cking war.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Asher
I'm sorry I'll have to be a little more clear in connecting the dots for you, apparently I can't leave that job for you.

Okay, and do you think Bush cares if France cares? If Germany cares? Hell, if BRITAIN cares?

Well D'OH! I've NEVER have guessed that all on my own! THANK you for ENLIGHTENING me...

That's why the world is against him because we all know that this is not a war of last resort - but on of first resort! (He says stating the obvious, you albertan you!)

[Say Frogger? Is 'albertan' canadian for 'stupid'?]

He's lobbying for international support because it makes his job easier. He's a Texan and he wants to topple Saddam, whether someone in a beret or with a bratwurst says no won't phase him.

No. Because Blair told him to, to maintain a veneer that he actually cares. Every time he holds back, it's because Blair has told him to...

It's a bit of a reality check to realize you and your countries can't do a damn thing about it, but perhaps it's time you realized it and stopped wasting your time?

Maybe we can't, but it could serve as the eventual death knell of the US if the whole world then decided to turn its back on america. The US is not too big for the world you know...

Originally posted by FroggerYou have no excuse; you live in Britain.

I didn't go because it was actual Canadian cold outside and I didn't want to lose any fingers to frostbite.

They reckoned it was -4c here - that is cold enough for standing around for over four hours, especially when it was only the other week that I was used to 30c+ temps!

Actually I am amazed that so many people were marching given what an important sporting day it was here!

[KrazyHorse]

-4 c

[KrazyHorse]

It was -20 or so here.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Well D'OH! I've NEVER have guessed that all on my own! THANK you for ENLIGHTENING me...

That's why the world is against him because we all know that this is not a war of last resort - but on of first resort! (He says stating the obvious, you albertan you!)

[Say Frogger? Is 'albertan' canadian for 'stupid'?]

So basically, you realize that he doesn't care, and yet you let him know anyway? Do you realize how stupid that is?

No. Because Blair told him to, to maintain a veneer that he actually cares. Every time he holds back, it's because Blair has told him to...

Yeah, that's the ticket. Blair is calling the shots, Bush is his puppet.

Mobius, Britain lost its status as a relevant power many years ago. It's the US' b*tch these days, much like most other western nations, whether they politely protest or refuse to send troops or not. No one will stop them.

Maybe we can't, but it could serve as the eventual death knell of the US if the whole world then decided to turn its back on america. The US is not too big for the world you know...

The US is the centerpiece for the modern world, chances are the rest of the world would be hurt more by the world turning its back on the US.

They reckoned it was -4c here - that is cold enough for standing around for over four hours, especially when it was only the other week that I was used to 30c+ temps!

-4C is not cold...

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Frogger
-4 c

Hey! I was in Toronto almost exactly a year ago and dealt with that in my stride - it's just living all this time in a warm climate has weakened my natural british resistant to bad weather...

[Demerzel]

I went to the rally in London today and they must have been easily 1.25m there if not more, one heck of an atmosphere and hopefully something for Tony Blair to note. Interesting speakers included Rev. Jesse Jackson, Charles Kennedy ( leader of the Lib Dems ), Tim Robbins, etc..

I nipped down the pub to watch England smack down the French at 4pm

Originally posted by Asher
Okay, and do you think Bush cares if France cares? If Germany cares? Hell, if BRITAIN cares?

He's lobbying for international support because it makes his job easier. He's a Texan and he wants to topple Saddam, whether someone in a beret or with a bratwurst says no won't phase him.

It's a bit of a reality check to realize you and your countries can't do a damn thing about it, but perhaps it's time you realized it and stopped wasting your time?

Depressing isn't it that Bush will potentially just ignore every other country in the world and go it alone. I think I preferred it when the US was isolationist, at least then we didn't have to deal with their moral crusade and "we'll do it 'cos the rest of you are too chickensh*t" crap...