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**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 00:47

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
The Department of Transportation credits marijuana as the cause of about 6% of highway fatalities in the USA.

And what's the percentage of alcohol related traffic deaths? Yet that's a perfectly legal substance, available everywhere. Except for maybe Utah!

Tests on lab animals do indeed support the statement that marijuana smoke is about ten times more carcinogenic than cigarette smoke. Smoking 4 jays/day would be the equivalent of smoking 2 packs/day. A 40 pack year smoking history is definitely considered a cancer risk. I'm certain that there are at least a few people around who smoke that much marijuana, 4 jays/day over the period of 2 or more decades needed to induce a tumor.

Anything you put into your lungs is going to be carcinogenic. Even exhaust from automobiles will do the trick. Should we outlaw those as well?

But you won't hear of someone dying from an overdose, or rotting their liver to nothing. You also won't hear of someone losing control and beating the crap out of their spouses and family. In comparison to other drugs of choice, marijuana is one of the most benign, if not the most. It even has some proven medical benefits.

**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 00:49

Originally posted by Zylka

Seriously... everyone knows 9 out of 10 potheads are failures. Reality calls!

Seriously... show us some research to support your claim.

**Zylka** · February 3, 2003, 00:52

Yes, the acclaimed "potheads are failures because of extensive empirical research" labratories in Los Angeles immediately come to mind.

Seriously, show me some research to prove that red can be described as the color red.

Until then, hide behind what you can - AND VOTE NDP!!!

**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 00:59

Originally posted by Zylka

Until then, hide behind what you can - AND VOTE NDP!!!

Now that Layton's in charge, I just might consider it.

**Zylka** · February 3, 2003, 01:06

Yeah I bet. Asher, we've got a leftie to beat up over here!!!

**Ben Kenobi** · February 3, 2003, 01:11

Willem:

And you're positive his symptons weren't caused by the stress of being arrested? Anxiety has physical manifestations as well. I've been around the block a few times, and I've known a lot of pot smokers. Not once have I heard of anyone suffering withdrawal symptons.

My post said fined, not arrested. Show me a source that says no one who smokes pot suffers from withdrawal symptoms, unlike my post which says they do, and describes the physiological mechanisms behind pot addiction.

**Dr Strangelove** · February 3, 2003, 01:11

Originally posted by Willem

And what's the percentage of alcohol related traffic deaths? Yet that's a perfectly legal substance, available everywhere. Except for maybe Utah!

Alcohol figures into about 50% of vehicular deaths in the USA, but so what? We don't need anopther legal intoxicant. The drunks are doing fine reducing the excess population all on their own, they don't need any help from the potheads.

You also won't hear of someone losing control and beating the crap out of their spouses and family.

Oh yes you will, if you listen! Just recently in this area some stoned teens started blasting away at each other. It was so senseless. Two of the kids, a brother and sister were at a freinds house, smoking some of his weed, when they noticed that his cell phone looked a lot like one belonging to the brother. When the friend refused to surrender the device they went home and got pistols. Returning to his house the "friend" met them at the door shooting down the 17 year old brother. He finished the boy off with a shot to the back of the head then chased the 16 year old girl and did the same to her.
I had a patient who lost custody of her daughter because she went on a week long marijuana jag. The authorities were called when the neighbors complained that the 13 year old was just wandering around the neighborhood. Neglect is abuse.
In my college years I witnessed a number of fights among stoned neighbors.

**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 01:14

Originally posted by Zylka
Yeah I bet. Asher, we've got a leftie to beat up over here!!!

Yeah, we've already shared a few views in another thread.

**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 01:17

Originally posted by obiwan18
Willem:

My post said fined, not arrested. Show me a source that says no one who smokes pot suffers from withdrawal symptoms, unlike my post which says they do, and describes the physiological mechanisms behind pot addiction.

Well if I had some time, I could probably come up with something. But I don't have the energy at the moment. Even if there are withdrawal symptons, they are mild compared to alcohol and tobacco. Certainly not enough to use as an excuse to keep it illegal, while other drugs aren't.

**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 01:21

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

In my college years I witnessed a number of fights among stoned neighbors.

Compare that to the number of fights you witnessed by people who were drunk. Violent people will always be violent, but smoking pot doesn't aggravate that tendency nearly as badly as alcohol does. In fact it tends to make people more laid back.

**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 01:43

I was just doing surfing and I came across this link:

Comparison of mortality rates

**Gatekeeper** · February 3, 2003, 02:50

Originally posted by Willem
And as someone who uses both alcohol and marijuana, I can assure you that I'm alot more capable when I'm stoned than when I'm drunk.

Good God. I have nothing more say to you in this particular thread, Willem.

Good day.

Gatekeeper

**Gatekeeper** · February 3, 2003, 02:57

Originally posted by monolith94
"Fascinating! Hell, let's just legalize everything and put our faith that any high, stoned or drunk person will be caught before they cause a damn disaster."

S.S. Valdez

What are you arguing? That if one person downs two shots of whiskey and another person smokes two joints, the effect on their reaction time will be the same? That their perceptions of reality around them will be the same? That alcohol and pot have *identical* effects on the body?

I'm not a medical expert, so is that true? Dr. Strangelove? Anybody? Can you smoke two joints or down two shots of whiskey and the effect would be identical, therefore both should be legal because one already is?

Right now, I don't believe it. It's like saying one person smokes two cigarettes and another smokes two joints, and the effect will be the same. No way, jose.

Gatekeeper

**Willem** · February 3, 2003, 03:00

Originally posted by Gatekeeper

Good God. I have nothing more say to you in this particular thread, Willem.

Good day.

Gatekeeper

Sorry for bruising your moral sensibilities. I guess that means I'm a monster now does it?

**Kramerman** · February 3, 2003, 03:03

Originally posted by Willem

Over twenty years ago, Canada studied the effects of marijuana under the authority of what was then called the LeDain Commision. They ascertained then that the health and social effects of smoking marijuana were negligable, and they recommended that, at the very least, it should be decriminalized. In all that time, there hasn't been a single study that has proven them wrong.

PS Here's a link:

Ledain Commision report

Helpful, as usual, Willem

Thanks

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Marijuana: Another Senseless Overdose

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