Marijuana: Another Senseless Overdose

[Ben Kenobi]

An explanation I never found satisfactory. He is basicly saying they were allowed to commit a wrong because they were bad people.

Berzerker,
clearly you have a problem with both Jesus and Paul, not just Paul. It is dishonest to reject Paul as not conforming with Christianity, when you don't accept Jesus.

It makes sense to me that God will not provide everything all at once, and rather progressively reveal himself to man. This is part of the point of the Mosaic Law, that you teach to the level at which people can understand. If you change their behavior for the better, have you not won part of the victory?

You ignored my points about equality, that Paul taught the equality of all persons, which is anathema to slavery as an institution.

Did he ask that a friend be freed? Apparently.

Now we're getting somewhere! So you accept that Paul hates slavery, at least in Philemon, but you attribute this rejection as a favour for a friend.

"I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains."

What does Paul mean when he refers to Onesimus as 'my son?'

Does he mean a friend, or does he mean a brother in Christ? I think he means the latter. Onesimus is not just a personal friend of Paul, but he is also a Christian brother, under the pastoral care of Paul.

By extension, Paul should be willing to file a claim for all the Christian brothers who are in chains to their masters, in asking for their freedom from captivity.

Now combine this with Paul's earlier statement. In order for a slave to be freed, he can stay as he is and not improve his lot, or he can become a Christian, and have people to fight for his freedom like Paul.

Paul has no power to demand the release of all the slaves, but he does have the power to help the Christians.

How was a slave to "get free" while being a good slave and doing your master's bidding? By being freed by the master only.

And how else will the slave be freed? Cutting all the chains off the slave? Having Christians walk around and free the slaves? Paul would prefer to do this, but the constraints of the time bind him to this approach.
It does not prove that Paul condones slavery, Paul was trying to topple slavery from within.

If you take the slaves away from a slaveowner, he will simply get more. If you convince the slaveowner that slavery is wrong, then he will never own another slave, and release the ones he owns. Which is more effective? The first might charge out of the gate, but the second overtakes and eventually surpasses the first.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Zylka
Define "acid head" for this skeptical poster.

I've done daily doses for up to a week straight. Though usually it was a weekly thing. This went on for the period of at least couple of years.

So there's no such thing as a continual addiction that can be properly fed with acid - such is not the same with weed.

Not physically, but there is a possibility of a psychological dependance. Minor yes, but still there.

Acid, in the sense of performance shaving multiplied by consistent addiction - can not affect your day to day life as severely as pot, and is mild in comparison.

Have you actually tried it? I can assure you, if someone is high on acid, they're not going to be able to perform very well. Hallucinations can make it a little difficult to deal with reality!
And for someone with mental problems, it can be downright dangerous. That's the main problem as I see it with acid in fact, it can make people mentally unstable.

(Not aimed at you, you've definitely got a brain. I'm sure you'd draw more respect with increased abilities, though...)

Well how about that! I've been smoking daily for the past five years and I can still think straight! I guess it must really be harming me! I admit that I have a tendency towards laziness, but so what? IMO, this world is being choked because of over-achievers, it doesn't need anymore to add to the mess.

Strychnine in mushrooms is a comical urban legend at best - Trust me, drop that assumption before you start waiving canes at people while screaming how the moon landing was faked

I did mention that I wasn't sure of that didn't I?.

I agree they're not very pleasant on the digestive system in large quantities, but what does that have to do with anything at all? Are they more harmful than pot because of that? Pot sure as hell doesn't make my chest and upper throat feel too wonderful, so what's the point? Are you assuming they're lethally poisonous because of this intestinal distaste? Look up the LD-50 of mushrooms if this is the case. Since you're eating a bunch of exotic stale dried fungus, gas could be expected. Eat a jar of hot peppers and tell me how you feel after that

I'm not trying to argue with you that mushrooms are dangerous, I know they're not. In fact that was the only detrimental effect I could come up with. Aside from the fact that people with a mental disabilty might not be in very good shape after ingesting it. It's far less of a problem with mushrooms than with acid though, I have to admit.

I think I've just taken care of that notion - THERE ARE NO HARMLESS DRUGS. To further, even on seperation and combination scales - pot isn't the least dangerous.

No there aren't. But I also don't see the rationale of spending billions of dollars a year world wide, and arresting hundreds of thousands of people because they smoke marijuana. Especially considering the futility of doing so.

Almost every month I read of some indoor grow operation getting busted. But for every one that gets caught, there's probably 10 that don't. I think if we add up all the various factors involved, then it would make sense to legalize it.

[Willem]

Originally posted by obiwan18
Berzerker,
clearly you have a problem with both Jesus and Paul, not just Paul. It is dishonest to reject Paul as not conforming with Christianity, when you don't accept Jesus.

Thank you for the Sunday School lesson, but what does this have to do with a discussion about marijuana? Please keep your religion to yourself, I don't want to hear it!

[Felch]

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering why we have this subplot all about Paul justifying slavery.

Zylka versus Willem, now there's something to watch.

[Jac de Molay]

think I've just taken care of that notion - THERE ARE NO HARMLESS DRUGS. To further, even on seperation and combination scales - pot isn't the least dangerous.

You could walk into the local GNC and find at least 10 or 20 that are more dangerous- all over-the-counter and with no age limit for purchase.

[David Floyd]

I think the danger element of drugs is irrelevant. Everyone knows that drugs are dangerous to some degree - that's a no-brainer. Some are less dangerous than others, and it's less dangerous to drink a beer than to drink 10 shots. Duh.

The point that is relevant, though, is that personal drug use harms no one other than yourself, in the same way that drinking harms no one's liver but your own.

Now, if you get in a car and drive home drunk, or go rob a convenience store while you are high, that is wrong. However, those are arguments against drunk driving and robbery, not against alcohol and drug use. Roberry and drunk driving SHOULD be illegal, and driving while high, or flying a plane while high, etc., should be illegal as well.

But just as it's not illegal for me to go out drinking, or drink at home, neither should it be illegal for me to get high at home, or get high in some form of "drug bar", or walk down the street smoking a joint, as long as I'm not driving home. If I commit a crime in the process I should of course be punished, this is not even up for debate as near as I can tell.

Just separate the crime from the act.

Oh, and obiwan - God commanded some horrible atrocities in the OT, including genocide, and Paul did not take a public moral stand against slavery, which any moral person should do.

[Az]

God is immoral!

[RGBVideo]

Seriously... everyone knows 9 out of 10 potheads are failures.

I would say it's the other way around... Almost all losers start smoking pot,
because they feel that they have nothing to lose in their lives (of course it isn't true,
but... who would tell them that?)

In Conclusion:

Drugs = Bad (R)
Alcohol = Bad (R)
Cigarettes = Bad (R)

[David Floyd]

Azazel,

God is immoral!

Well, I find it odd that an Israeli would make a sarcastic comment questioning the immorality of genocide.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Felch X

Zylka versus Willem, now there's something to watch.

I'm pleased that I'm able to entertain you.

[mactbone]

David, what about the emotional anguish the friends and family of drug users suffer? There's also the cost of funerals if a drug user ODs. Also, not everyone realizes drugs are bad, mmmkay? Some people either ignore or don't think about the consequences, and I know you don't agree with it, but the government should keep harmful substances out of the public. If the government via the FDA can ban and block research into drugs that are harmful, they have the right and obligation to keep harmful substances illegal. Drugs can harm in more than one way, they can harm your education, your physical ability, your body, and your emotional stability.

People make arguments using legal drugs (like alcohol) and asking how they feel about that but the onus is on the people that want to make a change, not the people who wish to keep the status quo.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MacTBone
David, what about the emotional anguish the friends and family of drug users suffer? There's also the cost of funerals if a drug user ODs.

No one has ever died from ODing on marijuana. Yes there is a toxicity level, but someone would have to smoke 900 joints in a day in order to reach that point. I can probably dig up some facts to support that claim, but I really don't want to bother.

[Sava]

Drugs can harm in more than one way, they can harm your education, your physical ability, your body, and your emotional stability.

I don't believe that one human being has the right to tell another human being what they can or can't put in their body. If someone wants to smoke themselves retarded, that's their right.

[Ben Kenobi]

Thank you for the Sunday School lesson, but what does this have to do with a discussion about marijuana? Please keep your religion to yourself, I don't want to hear it!

Willem,
Two points:

1. If it bothers you so much, PM a mod. I'm sure they'll listen to your complaint.

2. What I said I directed to Berzerker, not to you. Granted, this is off-topic but Berzerker initiated the discussion, not me.

So lay off a productive discussion.

[Willem]

Originally posted by obiwan18


So lay off a productive discussion.

If it bothers you so much, PM Berserker.