Contact with Columbia Lost!

[Edan]

The conspiracy theories are beginning already....

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/shuttle.asp

[Agathon]

[putting on his pedant's cap]

That's a prophecy, not a conspiracy.

So there .

[Ben Kenobi]

It's not the deaths themselves, but the circumstances and context that make the difference.

Agathon:

Do you believe one life is worth more than another?

[BustaMike]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
damnit... every day thousands die in car accidents, of hunger and illness, in wars, etc. and now make such a fuss about 7 people.

i know, it's a shame to lose good and intelligent human lives. but come on... some of you guys just don't see the big picture...

Obviously you don't see the big picture. The space program is one of the few things around that I still feel is rooted in the glory of science and exploration and not profit. The tragic death of these people and the loss of the Columbia sets the space program back almost to the point that I'm not sure it can recover with everything else that's going on now (recession, Bush out to blow up the world, etc.).

When I first saw the thing explode I just thought well that sucks, but now I'm really starting to get depressed the more and more I think about it. The loss of these 7 people is an incredible tragedy, but as Vel said the loss of the symbol is an even bigger tragedy.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by DanS

You have some weird opinions. Does Sweden spend so much money rolling the dice on great scientific progress? Does Sweden have a large portion of christian conservatives?

Further, even removing military R&D, the US spends more than the EU on science as a %-age of the economy. I wonder what basis you think you have to criticize.

Checking the actual stats, I must admit you are partly right. The Swedish Space Corporation spends only 6$ per citizen while NASA spends about 11$.

http://www.ssc.se

But the 3 G$ NASA budget I heard about on the news today equals the Swedish puny defense budget. And Sweden is a very small country, so it sounded ridiculous compared to the military budget of US. As I said, If you wanna buy some new rockets, let them be space shuttles.



But Sweden do have Europe's largest space launch site. And talking general science, not only space research, all schools teach the ToE, even the few that are driven by Christian conservatives (but only under protest of course). Do yours?

[Zero]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Big crunch, do you also do this to private people?

I mean, do you come to, say, funerals, and tell people "hey, there are thousands of people starving in africa! stop crying!" and demand that all the people that came except the immediate family leave?

Wow, this is the example my friend used about WTC.... and its a bad analogy btw. Frankly I tend to laugh when I'm in the funeral so I avoid it as much as possible in order to avoid troubles.

People dying is people dying, as Che put it nicely. Anyone else whos trying to make it more than it actually is is just caught up in overwhelming emotion. Its tragic enough someone died. You dont need anymore than that for reason to be sad about it.

I think BC is trying to hard to take on the "This tragedy is no different" side a little too hard.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by BustaMike


The loss of these 7 people is an incredible tragedy, but as Vel said the loss of the symbol is an even bigger tragedy.

I share your grief, but the symbol isn't lost. There are still a few shuttles that are spaceworthy. What is lost is time, because they will never send them on a mission before they know what happened, and that will take time.

[BustaMike]

I share your grief, but the symbol isn't lost. There are still a few shuttles that are spaceworthy. What is lost is time, because they will never send them on a mission before they know what happened, and that will take time.

I hope so...

[Zkribbler]

ABC News is reporting several witnesses saw pieces coming off the shuttle as it flew over eastern California.

[Zylka]

Well, this is of presence and would draw a tear from my own eye if I had seen it live... but so would the instance of a half a dozen children dying on Quebec's highways in a collision.

All I'm saying is that these men and women died living out a dream - there's no reason for intense sorrow.

May God bring them peace

[DanS]

Why are you focusing on the ToE, Olaf? Conservative christians of all stripes support science spending. Indeed, you're out of touch by suggesting that there is some conflict between the two.

while NASA spends about 11$

Nope. NASA spends $15 billion each year, or $52 (SEK 482) per person. Or 9x what Sweden spends per person.

Sounds like your journalists need to go back to school for their math.

In addition, the Air Force spends about $15 billion each year on classified space programs. Remember that when you see Powell's reconnaissance photos on Wednesday.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by obiwan18


Agathon:

Do you believe one life is worth more than another?

That's not what I said. What I was saying was that some deaths are more poignant than others - the deaths of heroes, etc. These are more saddening to us because they represent the frustration of our greatest aspirations. They matter more to us because there is more of value in this world than just lives (this doesn't mean lives aren't valuable, it just means they aren't the whole story).

Anyway, even if we believe that all lives have equal status we will be forced by that logic to assume that some are more valuable than others.

Sound odd?

Well it isn't. Imagine that in a war you have the option of saving an injured infantryman or an injured medic. If you save the medic he will be more likely to save other lives than the infantryman will. So if you care about minimizing the number of deaths, the survival of the medic is more important. QED

[MrFun]

I watched more on CNN about the disaster. When I saw the pictures and past interviews with some of the crew members, my heart sank.

Earlier today, I asked a seminary student here on campus, whether or not our chapel is going to set aside anything during regular mass tomorrow to pray in rememberance of the brave, dedicated crew members. He said they probably will.

[Zkribbler]

Nasa chiefs 'repeatedly ignored' safety warnings

Peter Beaumont
Sunday February 2, 2003
The Observer

Fears of a catastrophic shuttle accident were raised last summer with the White House by a former Nasa engineer who pleaded for a presidential order to halt all further shuttle flights until safety issues had been addressed.
In a letter to the White House, Don Nelson, who served with Nasa for 36 years until he retired in 1999, wrote to President George W. Bush warning that his 'intervention' was necessary to 'prevent another catastrophic space shuttle accident'.

During his last 11 years at Nasa, Nelson served as a mission operations evaluator for proposed advanced space transportation projects. He was on the initial design team for the space shuttle. He participated in every shuttle upgrade until his retirement.

Listing a series of mishaps with shuttle missions since 1999, Nelson warned in his letter that Nasa management and the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel have failed to respond to the growing warning signs of another shuttle accident. Since 1999 the vehicle had experienced a number of potentially disastrous problems:

· 1999 - Columbia's launch was delayed by a hydrogen leak and Discovery was grounded with damaged wiring, contaminated engine and dented fuel line;

· January 2000 - Endeavor was delayed because of wiring and computer failures;

· August 2000 - inspection of Columbia revealed 3,500 defects in wiring;

· October 2000 - the 100th flight of the shuttle was delayed because of a misplaced safety pin and concerns with the external tank;

· April 2002 - a hydrogen leak forced the cancellation of the Atlantis flight;

· July 2002 - the inspector general reported that the shuttle safety programme was not properly managed;

· August 2002 - the shuttle launch system was grounded after fuel line cracks were discovered.

Nelson's claims - which The Observer could not independently verify yesterday - emerged against a background of growing concern over the management of safety issues by Nasa.

They followed similar warnings in April last year by the former chairman of the Aerospace Safety Advisory panel, Richard Bloomberg, who said: 'In all of the years of my involvement, I have never been as concerned for space shuttle safety as I am right now.'

Bloomberg blamed the deferral or elimination of planned safety upgrades, a diminished workforce as a result of hiring freezes, and an ageing infrastructure for the advisory panel's findings.

His warning echoed earlier concern about key shuttle safety issues. In September 2001 at a Senate hearing into shuttle safety, senators and independent experts warned that budget and management problems were putting astronauts lives at risk. At the centre of concern were claims that a budget overspend of almost $5 billion (£3bn) had led to a culture in Nasa whereby senior managers treated shuttle safety upgrades as optional.

Among those who spoke out were Democratic Senator Bill Nelson of Florida, who warned: 'I fear that if we don't provide the space shuttle programme with the resources it needs for safety upgrades, our country is going to pay a price we can't bear.

'We're starving Nasa's shuttle budget and thus greatly increasing the chance of a catastrophic loss.'

Although Nasa officials said that improvements were being made they admitted that more needed to be done.

A year earlier, a General Accounting Office report had warned that the loss of experienced engineers and technicians in the space shuttle programme was threatening the safety of future missions just as Nasa was preparing to increase its annual number of launches to build the International Space Station.

The GAO cited internal Nasa documents showing 'workforce reductions are jeopardising Nasa's ability to safely support the shuttle's planned flight rate'.

Space agency officials discovered in late 1999 that many employees didn't have the necessary skills to properly manage avionics, mechanical engineering and computer systems, according to the GAO report.

The GAO assembled a composite portrait of the shuttle programme's workforce that showed twice as many workers over 60 years of age than under 30. It assessed that the number of workers then nearing retirement could jeopardise the programme's ability to transfer leadership roles to the next generation to support the higher flight rate necessary to build the space station.

[Agathon]

I'm sure I saw this guy on a documentary about the Challenger disaster.

Perhaps he just made a lucky prediction - I hope so.