People's Contradictory Beliefs?

[lightblue]

'Cause we need a good knees up with the family too every once in awhile, and Easter/Xmas are days when everyone will have time off work/school etc. We'll eat well, drink a lot and in general have a good time, and in my case this has sod all to do with the birth or death of Christ.

If everyone had a 4 day weekend in the second week of September but not in the 3 week of December, we'd have it then.

[JohnT]

You know, I had a pretty good crack at Che's expense at the end of page 1 and all y'all want to do is be serious and no fun at all. That's it - I'm taking my ball and going home!

[Dauphin]

For posterity

Originally posted by JohnT
Being a Communist and working for Citibank...

[Solly]

People who believe in God.

Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive.

[The Mad Monk]

Jesus' only instruction to occupying roman soldiers who came to his for guidance was "don't take bribes".

There's a lot more he could have said to them if he had something to say.

[MosesPresley]

What hypocrisy. Capital punishment did your savior in. An innocent man, no less.

[Ben Kenobi]

Where do we defend the death of innocent men?
Jesus was never accused of killing someone, merely blasphemy. I doubt anyone in the US advocates capital punishment on those terms.

That's why it's so important to have a fair trial to confirm whether or not the person is guilty, like I said earlier.

The real question is whether we should have capital punishment since people can and do make mistakes. Mistakes with capital punishment cost lives.

[Berzerker]

Oh, there's all that "turn the other cheek," forgiveness, non-violence stuff he rambles on about. Executing someone isn't turning the other cheek, nor exercising forgiveness.

How does one forgive, turn the other cheek, and practice non-violence while putting people in cages?

[Al B. Sure!]

I really think Jesus' message was distorted considerably over the years. I think frescos and what not of Jesus and the disciples done by the late Romans/early Byzantines showed Jesus in armour, grasping a sword, and being militant.

Just as Jesus was blondized in order to appeal to northern europeans (and is being negroized now to appeal to black christians) it is possible that Jesus and his message has been interpreted as one of peace incorrectly.


thanks

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Berzerker
How does one forgive, turn the other cheek, and practice non-violence while putting people in cages?

Forgiveness may put you right with God but the State is a little more hard nosed.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Boris
Oh, there's all that "turn the other cheek," forgiveness, non-violence stuff he rambles on about.

I forget where I read it (IIRC it was a paper written by ckweb, but I can't remember the url for his website), but "turn the other cheek" doesn't mean "forgive and forget," it means "force your enemy to treat you as an equal." Apparently back in Roman times if you slapped somebody with the back of your hand then you were treating them as an inferior, whereas if you slapped them open-handed then you were treating them as an equal. So, if you "turn the other cheek," then you force your enemy to slap you open-handed, thereby treating you as an equal.
[/pedantic mode]

Originally posted by Bods
Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive.

Say what?

Originally posted by Arrian
However, the method by which Religion tends to explain the "why and what" is, to me, very much at odds with a logical mind.

Depends on what religious philosophy you're referring to. If you mean Augustine or Aquinas, then I heartily disagree that logic is completely separated from religion. If you mean Falwell or those people who cut off their balls so that the Halle-Bopp comet would spirit them away to Alien-land (what was that cult called again? Didn't it have something to do with Nike shoes?), then yup, logic doesn't really seem to enter into the picture.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"Now, OTOH, supporting the death penalty but against abortion is contradictory. "

It's only contradictory if you make no distinction between innocent babies and convicted murderers.

Death penalty is not justice, it is revenge. Abortion is not about killing babies, at least not in my book.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I don't see a contradiction, they about different things. SM is about how, when, where - anything measurable and predictable. Religion* is about why and what - anything that is ethereal or nebulous.


* Religion in the broadest sense, be it ethics, morality, metaphysics or navel gazing.

Redefining terms is generally frowned upon.

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I don't understand why atheists celebrate Christmas and Easter, it seems contradictory, but hey, there we go.

Nah, what really is contradictory are Christians celebrating these pagan holidays.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by loinburger

I forget where I read it (IIRC it was a paper written by ckweb, but I can't remember the url for his website), but "turn the other cheek" doesn't mean "forgive and forget," it means "force your enemy to treat you as an equal." Apparently back in Roman times if you slapped somebody with the back of your hand then you were treating them as an inferior, whereas if you slapped them open-handed then you were treating them as an equal. So, if you "turn the other cheek," then you force your enemy to slap you open-handed, thereby treating you as an equal.
[/pedantic mode]

Bah, don't buy it. Look at it in context. Matthew 5:

"But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;"

and Luke 6:

"But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. 30 Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again."

That's got nothing to do with showing you are equal, it has to do with forgiving your enemies and not seeking vengeance on those who have wronged you.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
That's got nothing to do with showing you are equal, it has to do with forgiving your enemies and not seeking vengeance on those who have wronged you.

Like I said, I don't remember the original URL from where I read this, so I googled for "turn the other cheek." This site struck me as being the most relevant/promising/whatever (though you'll need to scroll about halfway down the page to get to the relevant portions):

Far from counseling the disciples to become doormats, Jesus suggests ways in which oppressed disciples may seize the initiative, call attention to their oppression, and declare their worth as human beings. After a backhand slap on the right cheek, turning the left cheek may be a defiant gesture. It says, "You did not succeed in humiliating me. Try again, only this time you must hit me as an equal." Whether or not the oppressor accepted the invitation to strike again, he would be acknowledging the other person's refusal to be cowed.

If Wink's interpretation is correct, then turning the other cheek, giving both garments, and going a second mile are all examples of reproof, not capitulation.

This site, which was the first to come up in the search, confirms the conclusion. (This one seemed less reliable, though, hence my quoting the other instead.)