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  • Okay, now Bush is just flat out lying

    From CNN

    Bush criticizes university 'quota system'
    Debate on affirmative action heats up
    Wednesday, January 15, 2003 Posted: 5:28 PM EST (2228 GMT)



    President Bush: "All races must be treated equally under the law."


    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Calling it "fundamentally flawed," President Bush announced Wednesday his opposition to an affirmative action program at the University of Michigan that targets minority students and said his administration will challenge it as the Supreme Court tackles the issue.

    "I strongly support diversity of all kinds, including racial diversity in higher education," Bush said at the White House. "But the method used by the University of Michigan to achieve this important goal is fundamentally flawed."

    Bush called it "a quota system" that rejects or accepts students "based solely on race."

    The president said his administration would file a brief Thursday outlining its opposition to the university's affirmative action program, which helps African-American, Hispanic and Native American students. The administration is expected to file a friend-of-the court brief, but it is not a plaintiff in the matter.

    "Our Constitution makes it clear that people of all races must be treated equally under the law," Bush said.

    Bush's action immerses the administration in a politically and socially charged subject at a time when Republicans are trying to recover from a racially tinged firestorm in the Senate and reach out to minority voters.

    'A watershed moment'
    The move by the administration was closely watched on Capitol Hill by Democrats who say Republicans have failed to encourage racial diversity. Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota, called it "a watershed moment" for Republicans.

    Former House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt -- who has announced his candidacy for the White House in 2004 -- said he would file a court brief in support of the university's affirmative action program. Gephardt, D-Missouri, graduated from the University of Michigan Law School.

    In the University of Michigan case, white students opposed to the program filed suits against the school. One lawsuit challenged the affirmative action program at the College of Literature, Science and the Arts, and another lawsuit challenged admissions policies using race at the law school.

    The undergraduate admission process involves a point system where African-American, Hispanic and Native American applicants earn 20 points on the basis of race out of a 150-point system.

    The Supreme Court's decision will be key in defining the role of affirmative action in America.

    Conservatives have been arguing that it is important for the administration to take a stand against racial preferences.

    Bush made clear his opposition to any such system.

    "Quota systems that use race to include or exclude people from higher education and the opportunities it offers are divisive, unfair and impossible to square with the Constitution," Bush said.

    But it is a politically sensitive issue for the president and Republicans who have been trying to reach out to minorities, especially in the wake of the controversy surrounding Sen. Trent Lott's comments praising Sen. Strom Thurmond's segregationist 1948 presidential bid.

    Many civil rights activists also have been angered by the president's judicial nominees, most recently that of Charles Pickering, a Mississippi judge renominated to a federal appeals court. They've described Pickering as racially insensitive and questioned his commitment to civil rights.

    The White House does not have to file a friend-of-the-court brief, but it is common practice in high-profile cases.

    Daschle suggested the administration's actions did not match its stated support for diversity.

    "I think the burden of proof will be on the administration, I think the burden of proof will be on Republicans to show us how they can be for diversity and yet be against the laws that promulgate diversity," Daschle said. "That, I think, is a hard case to make, but I look forward to their response."

    At a White House briefing, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer highlighted a program Bush spearheaded as governor of Texas.

    Bush opposed racial preferences at state universities, opting instead for a program he calls "affirmative access," under which the top 10 percent of all high school students are eligible for admission.



    There are NO QUOTAS. None! Moreover, to say that decisions are based solely on race... my god, it's just so stupid! It's just such a bald-faced lie!

    The question is will any Democrat, particularly one who is running for President, have the balls to call him out on it? My guess--hell no.


    A bit hypocritical, isn't it, considering that Bush himself benefited from affirmative action in higher education?
    "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
    "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

  • #2
    i agree there is no quota...but that doesn't make it any better...

    Affirmative Action, in its current set up, is one thing I've never supported...it is racial profiling
    "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
    You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

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    • #3
      AA nedds to go the way of the rest of institutional racism.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

      Comment


      • #4
        Look, you can argue with affirmative action if you want, I have no problem with that. Just don't LIE about it. Christ, just because he's an idiot he thinks the rest of us are too.

        (Obviously, that wasn't directed at you, Orange.) Orange, I know your idea is for AA based solely on economic class. I think that's a fine and wonderful idea, worthy of pursuing. However, it ignores the fact that racism continues to exist throughout all economic classes. Just look at that study that came out a few days ago, which showed that applicants with "white" names got 50% more job offers than similar applicants with "black" names. Once we can honestly say that racism is on its way out in out nation, then I will be 100% behind your proposition, without any reservations. Until that time, however, I must support race-based AA, even if it is philosophically flawed on a fundamental level.
        "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
        "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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        • #5
          I read about that study, and was actually quite shocked by it...
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

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          • #6
            I agree with the principle that everyone should be selected on merit, the underlying problem of inequality and institutionalised racism are what need to be solved.
            Speaking of Erith:

            "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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            • #7
              Re: Okay, now Bush is just flat out lying

              Originally posted by Guynemer
              A bit hypocritical, isn't it, considering that Bush himself benefited from affirmative action in higher education?
              Was that back when universities were making a special effort to admit more dumb people?
              "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

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              • #8
                Ah. Gerald Ford's "Bootstrap" program, as reported by The Simpsons.
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

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                • #9
                  "Moreover, to say that decisions are based solely on race..."

                  Again, in a report done on your school's admissions process they showed that at many grade/SAT levels an African-American was virtually certain to get in and whites were almost certain to get rejected.

                  From the Center for Individual Rights, here is a chart of GPA/LSAT scores needed to have an excellent chance of admission if you are an African American. You have an excellent shot if you have a GPA/LSAT combination within the Green





                  Now here is the same chart for a Caucasian American. To have an excellent shot of admissions you must be within the yellow box.



                  The red box in question is where on rejected applicat's score fell. Less then 9 % of whites from that GPA/SAT combination were admitted, whereas 100% of African Americans for that combination were admitted.
                  "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                  "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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                  • #10
                    A reporter asked WH mouthpiece Ari Fleischer about this (from Atrios):

                    Q: You said the President is against racial preferences because they're divisive. Is he against other preferences that colleges and universities routinely grant that people see as unfair? Like the one he got?

                    MR. FLEISCHER: I understand -- I understand all the interest and the specific questions
                    dealing with the review of the University of Michigan case --

                    Q: That is not what I'm asking.

                    MR. FLEISCHER: -- and the implications that come from whatever decision is made. I'm

                    not going to go beyond --

                    Q: I'm asking a question about fairness.

                    MR. FLEISCHER: -- I'm not going to go beyond where I've gone, because

                    --

                    Q: All right. Let me --

                    MR. FLEISCHER: -- be able to base it on reason and judge for yourself once you see what the President has concluded and why he's concluded . And he'll share his thoughts.

                    Q: But the general question about his feeling about fairness in America. When he was 18, he got into Yale University, which had and still has a policy of granting very special preferences to children of graduates, like him. Is that preference okay, to give him a leg up, but other preferences are not?

                    MR. FLEISCHER: I think you're going to have a good understanding of how the President
                    approaches the issue of opportunity and diversity when the President shares his thoughts publicly -- which is going to be, as I indicated, in some short period of time.
                    I wonder what race is favored by legacy preferences.
                    "When all else fails, a pigheaded refusal to look facts in the face will see us through." -- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do two wrongs make a right?

                      In order to correct a problem in society, should we commit another wrong?

                      I don't agree with equality of outcome, that admissions should reflect racial proportion in society, nor does it help when people like Dubya get into Yale based on what his parents did.

                      What should be done, eliminate both, but I don't see Yale changing it's policy because they get lots of money from Alumni, such as Bush senior.

                      One solution is for rich minority graduates to fund more scholarships, increasing the number of minority graduates. 'If you can't beat'em, join'em.'
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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                      • #12
                        Weren't minority scholarships abolished a few years ago? I thougth that back in the 1990s there was a Federal Court decision that ruled scholarships for minorities to be a form of discrimination.
                        "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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                        • #13
                          Universities take people who they think will make their student body the best possible. Grades arn't the only things that they are looking at. If a university feels that people of african american heritage will bring more to their student body then a white person with the same academic scores, then that is up to them

                          The government should not get involved.
                          "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                          • #14
                            the bolded text is hyperbole, not lying.

                            affirmative action is counter-productive now. instead of being treated as equals now, blacks are being treated as inferiors, and getting in with lower standards. my white friend got rejected from Columbia, and my Hispanic friend got in (with lower grades and similiar extra cirrucs). and to be honest, he's only 1/8 hispanic, and he put that down on his application because he knew it would help.

                            step up or step off.
                            "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
                            - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

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                            • #15
                              Shi--

                              Couple things here. What you are talking about is the Law School case. A bit of a different creature than the LS&A (undergraduate) case. Frankly, I can not speak to the Law School case; I am not nearly as familiar with it as I am the LS&A case. However, considering that the CIR is the entity behind the lawsuits, you'll have to find another source for me to buy that data.

                              Secondly, that chart is hardly proof. More white applicants than black got accepted with those grades/test scores, 8 to 3. Perhaps if 93 black applicants had those numbers, and 93 got in, you'd have a case. I'd have to see the actual Law School admitting criteria to make some sort of reasoned argument; statistics from a biased source aren't gonna cut it, my friend.
                              "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                              "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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