Okay, now Bush is just flat out lying

[Imran Siddiqui]

The reality is that minorities still face many, many, many difficulties in this country due only to their race--above and beyond difficulties due to their economic status.

I think this is GREATLY overstated, especially by the left. Now, I'm not saying you are making up stuff to get your point across, Guy, but the racism that minorities face isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Remember, I'm a minority, and I have never been faced with rascism in school or work.

---

Now, Constitutionally speaking, AA should have been declared unconstitutional. If you look at the text of the 14th Amendment it is clear that these are preferences based on race (or sex, etc.) and thus not Equal Protection under the laws. I anticipate a severe limiting of AA, although I doubt they'll outright ban it.

[cavebear]

Look, Bush has a tactic of speaking in centrist terms in favor of rightist goals. It works for him because most people are rather gullible and can't analyze what glib politicians say.

I intensely dislike people who use arguements that they don't actually believe in to get an outcome that they actually want.. I believe it is ethically wrong to use false arguments to decieve people. The Republicans do that way more than the Democrats do and that really bothers me.

If the Republicans argued in favor of things for the real reason they favored those things, they would be eliminated from serious politics entirely. Cloaking goals in false reasons does not deceive *me*, and I will not passively let them get away with it.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The law school, OTOH, sets aside a percentage of spots for minority students.

And that percentage is . . . ?

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The reality is that minorities still face many, many, many difficulties in this country due only to their race--above and beyond difficulties due to their economic status.

I think this is GREATLY overstated, especially by the left. Now, I'm not saying you are making up stuff to get your point across, Guy, but the racism that minorities face isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Remember, I'm a minority, and I have never been faced with rascism in school or work.

I think your experience is, unfortunately, uncommon. I can't think of a single minority friend of mine who has not faced at least one instance of racism at school or work, let alone just in society at large.

Now, Constitutionally speaking, AA should have been declared unconstitutional. If you look at the text of the 14th Amendment it is clear that these are preferences based on race (or sex, etc.) and thus not Equal Protection under the laws. I anticipate a severe limiting of AA, although I doubt they'll outright ban it.

As I said, philosophically, it's seriously flawed. But the alternative is worse. I also happen to think, Constitutionally speaking, that gun control laws are unconstitutional. It certainly doesn't mean that I want to get rid of them.

Philosophy is a good thing. However, confronting reality can be far more important. "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

[Drake Tungsten]

And that percentage is . . . ?

Around 11%.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

And that percentage is . . . ?

Around 11%.

Source?

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I haven't heard of this before (I haven't followed the law school case as closely as the LS&A case). Also, you believe the Big 12 is superior to the Big 10, which makes me think you are not quite in touch with reality...

[Drake Tungsten]

Also, you believe the Big 12 is superior to the Big 10, which makes me think you are not quite in touch with reality...

None of our schools are being brought before the Supreme Court for discrimination...

I saw the 11% figure on CNN.com yesterday, but I can't seem to track the specific article down now. The main point of the article was that, while Michigan denies having a quota system at the law school, the percentage of minorities at the law school has never fallen below 11% while the current affirmative action program has been in effect. The law school has percentage targets for minority admission and manipulates the admission criteria to achieve those goals. This is a de facto quota system.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

And that percentage is . . . ?

Around 11%.

That sounds suspiciously like the proportion of the population with minority status ... ?

[Drake Tungsten]

That sounds suspiciously like the proportion of the population with minority status ... ?

I thought so too, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If the Republicans argued in favor of things for the real reason they favored those things

They do, and they are still around.

Would you be happy if I said the Democrats simply talk about their policies in centrist terms with 'tax cuts for the middle class' when they actually want to raise taxes? If the Dems acknowledged their true intentions they'd be eliminated from politics entirely .

Sorry, but there happen to be a lot of people who happen to be rightists and they like the Republicans much more than the Democrats.

Look, Bush has a tactic of speaking in centrist terms in favor of rightist goals.

Please give us some examples. Calling this program a quota isn't talking in centrist terms in favor of rightist goals, it is pretty much the truth.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
the percentage of minorities at the law school has never fallen below 11% while the current affirmative action program has been in effect.

I would guess the percentage of left-handed people is about the same. Does this mean Michigan has a quota for left-handed people?

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
. . . but the racism that minorities face isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

And that's my point! Because it is the Republican position that the greatest violation of civil rights in America today is anti-White discrimination , Republicans are to be rejected by minority voters in 2004. Republican pollsters show Bush needs to pick up 2-3 million minority voters in 2004 to be re-elected. Using these tactics, he's not going to do it. Come 2005, there'll be a jackass in the White House!

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Would you be happy if I said the Democrats simply talk about their policies in centrist terms with 'tax cuts for the middle class' when they actually want to raise taxes?

Err...the Democrats have proposed a tax cut.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Republicans are to be rejected by minority voters in 2004. Republican pollsters show Bush needs to pick up 2-3 million minority voters in 2004 to be re-elected. Using these tactics, he's not going to do it.

Bull. Minorities aren't always Blacks you know? Hispanics in certain places (South Florida comes to mind) vote Republican. Plenty of Arabs are also rightward leaning. He got 2-3 million minority voters in 2000 (actually more) and he'll get them again because there are plenty of minorities that are against affirmative action.

Of course this time he probably won't need the minority vote anyway. The closeness of last election dictated he needed them.

Err...the Democrats have proposed a tax cut.

My point exactly. They proposed a tax cut, but if they get into office, will it still be on the table? What's the real reason they favor AA, so they can create a dependant class who can't live without government?

That makes as much sense as the Republicans who are lying to the people about their true intentions... while the Democrats actually talk about what they truely believe

[Caligastia]

All you liberals seem to be under the assumption that whites are the only ones capable of acting on racial predjudices. Other races can act on predjudices against whites more easily, so whites suffer from racial discrimination also. Sure, whites are the majority, but the public eye is always on them, making sure they don't discriminate against other races. Can we say the same of other races? Are they scrutinized as thoroughly as whites? No. This evens the playing field IMO, so AA policies should go the way of the Dodo.

[uh Clem]

Sure, whites are the majority, but the public eye is always on them, making sure they don't discriminate against other races. Can we say the same of other races? Are they scrutinized as thoroughly as whites? No.

Try this experiment tonight:

1. Turn black.

2. Drive through well-to-do neighborhood.

3. Note amount of scrutiny received.