Churchill war criminal, says German historian

[Chris 62]

Did the allies plan and wage agressive war?
NO
Did the allies systematically tortue and kill civillians in occupied countries?
NO

Those were the war crime charges at Nurmemberg, so stop trying to play symantics, it's becoming quite tiresome.

[zulu9812]

You're absolutely correct. However, the reason why no Nazis were tried for the carpet bombing of cities is because that would have shown the Allies in a bad light since they did the same thing. Thus, no new rules of engagement were drawn up for the conduct of an air war. See carpet bombing in Cambodia 20 years later...

[zulu9812]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Did the allies plan and wage agressive war?
NO

YES

Invading another country is an aggressive act, even if they did it first. Particularly if they didn't invade YOUR country (i.e. British and Americans).

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by zulu9812
See carpet bombing in Cambodia 20 years later...

Cambodia was never "Carpet Bombed"

I suppose you are referring to tactical strikes on a primative trail called "Ho che min".

To compare the this to WWII era city bombardment is, quite frankly, moronic.
Not saying you are moronic, saying the suggestion is.

So how many other pointless lemmings are going to be brought up in this thread?

[Drogue]

I agree with zulu. We were aggressive. The fact we didn't start it doesn't mean we can do anything.

[Chris 62]

Consider this:

The allies aern't "agressive", and lose WWII.

List the consequences.

[Drogue]

No, the allies could still win and not be aggressive. Overall gain.

[Chris 62]

Bull.

Your talking through your hat, you didn't consider it at all.

If you did honestly, you would see how that invalidates your entire argument.

If your not going to debate honestly, don't waste my time.

[Wernazuma III]

You can't "silently oppose" anything. Every silent member of society in a dictatorship is part of the collective structure of oppression, you're not "just following orders" but are an integral part of any social machine. As a citizen, you have the duty to actively pursue freedom, otherwise you're implicitly supporting the system. Thoreau can kiss my ass.

Buck Birdseed: I think you're talking about heros, not normal people. According to your logic, all the conquered people in Europe except for the partisans and their active helpers were supporting the system. I agree though, that "only following orders" is too little and makes you part of the machine. Trying to evade the system, like not becoming party member, not aiming a career in the hierqrchy or setting actions that are indirectly against the system (if being a judge, giving the lowest possible sentences) should be considered enough. You can't expect from a whole population to emigrate or risking their lives. The most effective part of totalitarian regimes is always the fear among its own citizens not to know who's a spy and would accuse you in no time and who silently suffers like you.
I have the highest respect of those, who risked and/or lost their lives in the active try to fight the system, but I don't blame the others who opposed the system but did nothing. Those who are really to blame (for being criminals) are only the opportunists and convinced followers.

[mactbone]

These kind of questions make you wonder how high in our psyche self-preservation is compared with all the rules and laws we are taught. If there are 45 people in a town of a few hundred threatening to kill people individually, do you figure that it's impossible for the 45 to win, and force the issue, or are you more concerned with your life and the lives of the people close to you?

Is it dillusional to think that if the murder does not occur in front of you that it will never occur (in the case of regular German civilians)?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Dresden was bombed in Feb. 1945. The war was over, we knew it was over. The V2s weren't hitting London daily. They were very sporadic at this point in the war.

That must have been a great comfort to Londoners wondering if the next V2 would contain mustard gas.

[TCO]

My Dad was named as a war criminal by the North Koreans. He had to ferry prisoners back to North Korea after the war. And they were getting all uppity and singing and ready to revolt. And he had been forbiddent to use fire hoses on them. So he drove perpindicular to the swells until they were all to seasick to care about the war. He was named by the NK government on the radio as one of the 100 US war criminals of the war.

[Imran Siddiqui]

In that case, when the US finally attacks Iraq, will Iraq be justified in doing anything at all to win the war? Will it be OK in your eyes for them to kill innocent women and children? After all, they won't be the ones 'starting it'.....

If Iraq wins, then I guess they will say that anything they did was justified for the victory.

[TCO]

Isn't it funny how the Germans always want to run and hide from the recent memory of Nazi rallies and the Holocaust. If they had won, I bet they wouldn't be so bashful.

[Jaakko]

Yeah, they're all Nazis. Goddamn Krauts.