30,000 Turk Cypriots Hold Pro-EU Rally

[Sonic]

Why can't there be two states in Cyprus?

[VetLegion]

Because it would set a dangerous precedant.. that borders in europe can be changed with war. For same reason there cant be two or three states in Bosnia (although factually there are) and Kosovo has to remain in Serbia.

[Sonic]

Boundaries in Europe can and was changed in wars many times. Last time they were majorly changed in WW2 though...

However, why can't there be 3 states in Bosnia? What has it to do with wars? Do you mean there also shouldn't have been 9 new states in European part of former Soviet Union also? Or there shouldn't have been 5 states instead of former Yugoslavia (there were also wars in Yugoslavia, thus you may consider that a change of boundaries by wars...)

[VetLegion]

Boundaries in Europe can and was changed in wars many times. Last time they were majorly changed in WW2 though...

After WWII UN was set up. One of the... no, the most important principle of modern international politics is that borders can not be changed with war. If they could there would be no end to chaos.

This is enforced whenever possible. Sometimes it is not possible (see Israel)

However, why can't there be 3 states in Bosnia? What has it to do with wars? Do you mean there also shouldn't have been 9 new states in European part of former Soviet Union also? Or there shouldn't have been 5 states instead of former Yugoslavia (there were also wars in Yugoslavia, thus you may consider that a change of boundaries by wars...)

No.. borders didnt change in the baltic nor in Yugoslavia. All borders are at least as old as WWII.

[Sonic]

What do you mean borders didn't change in Yugoslavia? One country split into 5 countries (just as Cyprus would be splitted into 2 countries). Or do you mean that borders were re-created as they were before Yugoslavia was formed? Well, before that there was no Macedonia at all, Serbia was different, etc. Thus new borders were set up, not old re-created. BTW, if you say old borders can be re-created and that is not equal to setting up new borders, then do you mean if Lithuania would take Berlarus and part of Ukraine that wouldn't be border change by war because Lithuanian Great Duchy once had these territories?

[Az]

... no, the most important principle of modern international politics is that borders can not be changed with war

but why does the fact that it suited britain, France, US, and USSR at a certain point in time make it right?

[Sonic]

Azazel, it was so because the days of true imperialism ended (the same as days of tribalism and feudalism ended). Current, modern imperialism, doesn't requires to occupy country to actually rule it... It is counted that you can almost control a country if you control at least a 10% of required resources. Of course, you can always install a puppet government...

[Az]

you still didn't answer the question: why does the fact that the superpowers agreed on it make it right? I hate that pretentious and most importantly fake bull****, because everyone knows that realpolitik is the real game? what other reasons could, say, Russia have to support the palestinians? Morality? pfff.

[VetLegion]

Azazel, you are the only one mentioning morals here. Who said anything about right or wrong?

What do you mean borders didn't change in Yugoslavia? One country split into 5 countries (just as Cyprus would be splitted into 2 countries)

you really dont understand or are you pulling my leg here?

[Ozz]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Because it would set a dangerous precedant.. that borders in europe can be changed with war. For same reason there cant be two or three states in Bosnia (although factually there are) and Kosovo has to remain in Serbia.

Maybe it would be better to say.

No forced border changes for NATO members.

All the changes have been Warsaw pact, Chezkslovia split, USSR split or Yugoslavia split. All non Nato.

[Sonic]

Ozz, Cyprus is also non-NATO

VetLegion, no, I am not pulling your leg

[Bereta_Eder]

Turkey ( a NATO member) invaded and captured a part of another country.

This is a no-no and cannot pass.

The reason they were not kicked out of the place was because of the geostrategic importance of Turkey to the "west". Normally they should have been kicked out.

Just like Iraq invading Kuwait.

The illegality of Turkey's invasion in Cyprus is why the occupied part is not recognized by anyone except... Turkey.

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Sonic
Ozz, Cyprus is also non-NATO

Yeah, and it's split. It has Greece (NATO member) trying to grab it, and Turkey (NATO member) preventing it.

I think Nato is the only thing preventing the shooting from starting, bad news when 2 members of your alliance start fighting.

[Bereta_Eder]

Thats bullsh!t. of course. made by a DL.

Greece had a dictatorship which was backed by the US/UK.

Brits turned Turks agansit Greeks and had their fair share of what happened when Cypriotes asked for independance from the british yoke.

Also UK was a guaranteeing power of the sovereignity of Cyprus and did nothing to protect the island.


And of course cypriotes had voted 97,5% in favor of independance.

Greece didnt try to grab it as a democracy and Turkey ivaded and condemned turkish cypritoes to fascism and utter poverty.

And turkish cypritoes want the prosperity Greek cypriotes have offered to their side.

[DinoDoc]