Asian Apologies

[Drake Tungsten]

It certainly is difficult to understand why the Koreans are upset.

The thread isn't about why the Koreans are upset. It's pretty damn obvious why they are upset and no one has said that they aren't justified in feeling that way.

The thread is about why the Koreans expect an apology from President Bush, as if the accident was his fault. Do try to keep up...

edit: And you made me agree with Asher! I'm so pissed off right now, seriously!

[orange]

it's our military. They're at fault. Bush is (sadly) commander-in-chief of the military. I don't see a problem with this...ok...I do...Bush should have voluntariliy apologized before having one demanded from him.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DanS
Why is humility demanded of the US? We're there for a reason. If they don't agree with that reason, why not just argue against it on that basis?

It is certainly a main point of contention right now. Loads of South Koreans constantly demonstrate against the US troops there. Both the ruling and opposition parties make it a main issue to take a strong stance when the agreement comes up for renewal.

[DanS]

"Fact is koreans dont like us. Even small things like olympic controversy in archery, speed skating etc pisses them off cause they Think that we as a bigger country influences the outcome and unpurposely rub them off since to them it seems to only happen with Korea-US."

The US has (or had this summer) a 53% approval rating in Korea, believe it or not. Not coincidentally, 53% of Koreans are also happy with their own lives.

The US has an approval rating of 61% in Indonesia, for comparison purposes.

"Bush should have voluntariliy apologized before having one demanded from him"

If you read the article, he did indeed apologize via letter. But this was deemed insufficient, as it wasn't delivered in person, but rather read by the ambassador.

[Alinestra Covelia]

DanS, I think that there's a tendency for protesters to oversimplify matters and hold the heads of state responsible for matters that happen far away from their specific domains of control.

One need only look at the protesters who gather wherever Chinese President Jiang Zemin goes - as if he has sole responsibility in what his regime stands accused of. Colorful accusations by the more extremist protesters even claim that Jiang is personally responsible for massacres, exploitations, torture, etc ad nauseam.

It stands to reason that similarly zealous and insufficiently accuracy-minded protesters might equate George W Bush with some bloodthirsty tank driver.

Either way, this is not to say that there are no valid grievances. Two kids were killed by a US vehicle - that deserves some examination and the question is whether the US military's resolution is satisfactory, and if not, then why not.

But sometimes in order to get to the valid grievances in a matter, you have to ignore the mental ones.

People who run after President Jiang's motorcade hurling eggs and shouting about "Tiananmen" never cease to amaze me. What sort of power did they think Jiang Zemin even had thirteen years (and two leadership changes) ago?

It's all a question of perception. And potstickers in moderation.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Stop being obtuse and read what he posted.

He's wondering why they're asking for a personal apology from someone who wasn't even involved with it.

Do you always have to be such a jackass?

Asher: this may be impossible for you, but try to be civilized for once instead of always spewing out insults like a little boy.

[DanS]

Well now, the buck does stop with the president, at least in the US--he sets foreign policy. I could accept a "Fvck Bush" button, just as I did with the "Fvck the US" buttons the nuns were wearing. They should be censured by Rome. Anyway, that all falls into the very legitimate question of whether or not the US military should be stationed in Korea, and whether the US is pursuing a good policy wrt the North.

I'm more perplexed on how a personal apology would heal the wounds in their minds.

Btw, who's the looker you have as an avatar?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher: this may be impossible for you, but try to be civilized for once instead of always spewing out insults like a little boy.

Excellent avoidance. A+

[DanS]

Tingkai: Why are you defensive about this?

[orange]

Originally posted by DanS
If you read the article, he did indeed apologize via letter. But this was deemed insufficient, as it wasn't delivered in person, but rather read by the ambassador.

before or after the demand? If before, then good! Kudos to Bush. Korea is in the wrong. If after, :burnt:, sorry, Bush is in the wrong. I'm inclinded to think it's the former, since anything demanded of Bush from a country would be ignored for spite.

The issue of our troops present in South Korea, however, is unchanged by any of this.

[Zero]

Originally posted by DanS

The US has (or had this summer) a 53% approval rating in Korea, believe it or not. Not coincidentally, 53% of Koreans are also happy with their own lives.

The percentage will matter greatly matter on how you phrase the question. Just because koreans hate us doesnt mean they will be throwing rocks at US soldiers and violently attempt to protest. When koreans protest. They protest.

How about US's approval rating for some of dictators around the world? It's a little different now, but dictators like Saddam and Milosevic would have gotten an good approval rating from the US people to let them stay in power and be opposed to overthrowing them. Even though we hated them just as much as we do now. The statistic is too vague to tell us anything.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

It certainly is difficult to understand why the Koreans are upset.

The thread isn't about why the Koreans are upset. It's pretty damn obvious why they are upset and no one has said that they aren't justified in feeling that way.

The thread is about why the Koreans expect an apology from President Bush, as if the accident was his fault.

If you agree that the Koreans have a reason to be upset with the US military and the way that it handled this case, or even if you understand why the Koreans are upset, then you must be able to understand why they believe that Bush, the commander-in-chief of the US military, has a responsbility to respond with a simple "I'm sorry for the deaths caused by the men under my command."

What the Koreans are demanding is perfectly understandable. There's a whole lot of crap here about why Asians demand apologies, when it is in fact, a universal response. There's nothing special about Korean culture that caused them to demand a response from Bush.

If this happened in Europe or North America, people would be saying the same things.

[Drake Tungsten]

If this happened in Europe or North America, people would be saying the same things.

I don't think this is true and it seems like many North American posters agree with me. If this happened in America, we would want the truck drivers to pay, not some meaningless apology from Kim Dae Jung.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Tingkai


If you agree that the Koreans have a reason to be upset with the US military and the way that it handled this case, or even if you understand why the Koreans are upset, then you must be able to understand why they believe that Bush, the commander-in-chief of the US military, has a responsbility to respond with a simple "I'm sorry for the deaths caused by the men under my command."

What the Koreans are demanding is perfectly understandable. There's a whole lot of crap here about why Asians demand apologies, when it is in fact, a universal response. There's nothing special about Korean culture that caused them to demand a response from Bush.

If this happened in Europe or North America, people would be saying the same things.

I guess You're right, but I think koreans hates us as well. I mean think about some annoying ***** that you dont like. You may not act all hostile just because you hate him, but when he does something that is his fault, you snap at him little more than you intended to. I think that plays a little here as well.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by DanS
If you read the article, he did indeed apologize via letter. But this was deemed insufficient, as it wasn't delivered in person, but rather read by the ambassador.

Did he apologize? The article merely said that Bush said he "was touched by this tragedy". That hardly counts as an apology.