Asian Apologies

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Get our boys out of there so we can watch and laugh when the "world power" that is Korea gets a little mouthy and ends up under the Chinese boot.

Just because the US attacks other countries willy-nilly doesn't mean other countries will do the same thing.

[Seeker]

"Seeker, Our presence on the DMZ keeps the peace"

No, it exacerbates the conflict.

I don't know why you think the North would invade if the US pulls out these divisions.

The situation is much different than 50 years ago:

-50 years ago, the Korean military wasn't much different then, say South Viet Nams was later. Today it is quite strong, much stronger in terms of technology and doctrine than the North.

-The UN and US would still come to Koreas aid in the (unlikely) event of an invasion.

-50 years ago they were backed up by Russia and China and 'Communism was sweeping the globe'. Today even Kim il knows it's time to change, look at his trip to russia and the new economic zone. (non-American) tourists can even visit Pyongyang.

-You seem to think that Korea is this weak little country only protected by thin line of Americans. Wrong. Modern south Korea is still one of Asias strongest industrial nations. The division in Seoul in particular is mostly symbolic, it's a tiny part of the South Korean defence.

South Korea is a strong country with a powerful military relative to the north and a much stronger economy. It doesn't really need American groundpounders, except for the symbolic value of being comrades, equal partners.
Many south Koreans now feel that the Americans no longer consider Korea to be an equal partner, and so the symbolism is now valueless and hypocritical.

The only thing they symbolize now is the obsession of the Pentagon to own lots of real estate in other peoples countries.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Just because the US attacks other countries willy-nilly doesn't mean other countries will do the same thing.

Well, we all know the Chinese only have the best of intentions when they invade a territory and would never do it willy-nilly.

[DanS]

Many south Koreans now feel that the Americans no longer consider Korea to be an equal partner, and so the symbolism is now valueless and hypocritical.

Why? Our attitudes haven't changed, as far as I can tell. True, the situation has changed from being a bipolar world to a budding multipolar world...

Re the ambitions of empire, I can't think of anything we could do that would be of less value to ourselves and the world, but it's true that the base in Korea is well situated for projecting power.

[Ned]

Seeker and Tinkai, We have troops on the DMZ for one reason, to keep the peace. We are there at the request of South Korea. We will leave if we are asked to leave.

I suspect that if SK asks us to leave, they will also ask us to continue to be allies and protect SK if attacked. However, our very withdrawal incents attack, so I don't know why we would do it.

Besides, the US is very good at welshing on defense contracts, especially if the other side has nuclear weapons. I can give you a list if you would like it.

As to the powerful SK army, what size is it compared to the North's Army? I suspect that NK would simply overrun the South as it did once before. But this time, if the South were to get the advantage, it could not invade North and finish the war. The NK's have nukes.

[Seeker]

To repeat:

-the trial jurisdiction.

-'soccer nationalism'.

-the verdict.

-the base. It's not liked. It's right in the middle of seoul. the koreans don't need it for anything.

-Also, how the US has been trying to get the South 'on-board' in their North containment/provocation strategy, when many Koreans don't think this is in their national interest.

NEW: There was another naval skirmish, a few days ago. That makes two this year.

[DanS]

"We will leave if we are asked to leave."

I also believe this to be true.

"provocation strategy"

Oh, seriously.

[Seeker]

"Re the ambitions of empire, I can't think of anything we could do that would be of less value to ourselves and the world"

I agree completely!

"the South Korean armed forces-today, some 670,000 men, 461 combat aircraft, and a navy that includes 44 destroyers, frigates, and corvettes as well as 4 attack submarines"

...are faced by roughly a million DPRKs.

Of the US Military personel, 24 000* are actual soldiers. I hope you can see that, in the korean peninsula where hundreds of thousands are deployed, this is a pretty token force.

Also note: The NKs use an obsolete tank, and have limited fuel. Their airforce is equally obsolete, not counting their defensive air defence capablity which I don't know. Their artillery is mostly older towed 'soft' artillery and is outclassed by the South.

The South has modern equipment.

But much more importantly, the psychology is different now. Of those 1 mil, how many would be willing to participate in human wave suicide charges, which are what they would have to do on the offense?

Yes, they do have a lot of crap. Definitely, they could take Seoul, this has always been acknowledged in most plans. But will they? No. The average NK, and even the leadership, is less 'hardcore' than they used to be.

*I'm not sure about this number, I've seen as high as 48 000 for total military personnel, and they change how many are deployed. It may be more like 30 000.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Well, we all know the Chinese only have the best of intentions when they invade a territory and would never do it willy-nilly.

At least we don't prop up nasty petty dictators and call them our buddies.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
At least we don't prop up nasty petty dictators and call them our buddies.

You just prefer to be the nasty petty dictators yourselves and cut out the middleman.

[DaShi]

I prefer Cbeasts!

[DanS]

"Yes, they do have a lot of crap. Definitely, they could take Seoul, this has always been acknowledged in most plans. But will they? No. The average NK, and even the leadership, is less 'hardcore' than they used to be."

I don't know how you could judge this, especially in the face of evidence that the NK regime isn't weak, even though a good portion of the population is in danger of starving.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You just prefer to be the nasty petty dictators yourselves and cut out the middleman.

I set em up and you knock them down

[Drake Tungsten]

Just because the US attacks other countries willy-nilly doesn't mean other countries will do the same thing.

China is trying its best to regain its historical position as the regional hegemon in East Asia. All the countries who used to be a part of the Chinese sphere of influence (Korea, Mongolia, Vietnam, etc.) had better watch their backs.

At least we don't prop up nasty petty dictators and call them our buddies.

You just prefer to be the nasty petty dictators yourselves and cut out the middleman.

It's funny cuz it's true.

China has propped up nasty dictators in the past, however. Have you forgetten about the Khmer Rouge? Pol Pot sure was a nice guy.

[DanS]

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_726075.html