Asian Apologies

[DanS]

After reading about demands by Koreans for a personal apology by President Bush for two army drivers running over two schoolgirls, I have to admit to being culturally stumped...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28621-2002Dec8.html

Why would anybody get so emotional about an accident and expect an apology from Bush? Is somebody always negligently at fault? Even if somebody is negligently at fault, what's that have to do with Bush?

I'm also reminded of Korean and Chinese demands for an apology from Japan for WWII occupation. This I can understand fully.

But it seems that there is little difference in degree among demanded apologies for wildly different acts--i.e., Bush should apologize to the same degree that Koizumi should. This doesn't make sense to me at all.

Please edumacate DanS.

[El León]

Imagine that for some reason, a couple of generations ago there was a war in the US (in which you did not even participate), where the US was being used as a political-real battlefield between two powers.
This war, which would have never been one if the two powers had not intervened, ended up splitting your country arbitrarily into two parts.
To "defend" both parts, the two countries send their armies into yours.
Fifty years later, a foreign army member (one should remember that what the army does in foreign countries (pornography, prostitution, alchohol) is quite different from what it does in its own country)) runs over two schoolgirls. (Mind you, this is not the first time that koreans complain about US army misbehaviour).

What do you think people in the US would feel in this scenario?

[Japher]

Whatever.

I agree that they are being rediculous for wanting an apology from Bush for an accident that he had nothing, personally, to do with. However, what I think the really want is apology from the US that the accident occured.

We could say sorry, "Sorry we ran over those girls, it is a big tragedy, and we will regret the incident for the rest of our lives. And, since you are so concernded of US involvement in your country, we will kindly step back from the board and welcom the North Koreans as they walk into your country killing all who will resist. Do you think they will apologize?... Hey, that reminds me, someone needs to apologize to all the families that were killed in the war here. Especially since some died due to "friendly fire". Hey, N. Korea, please apologize for all the killings you did too... Please."

Yet, that is why I am not a polotician.

As a US citizen I am apauld by both the accident and the subsiquent responses from it. I, as a US citizen, will apologize without haste and the upmost of sincerity, and I would like to see Bush (the US representative) do the same. All this because someone has to be the bigger man, turn the other cheek, and be the keeper of peace.

[Gangerolf]

His opponent, opposition party chief Lee Hoi Chang, 67, is a staunch conservative much more in tune with Bush's view of North Korea. But Lee, too, has bent to the winds of public opinion in an effort to capture the pivotal middle ground of the electorate.

"Our people should no longer be humiliated," Lee said while campaigning Friday in a southwestern province. "America still does not comprehend. Their leader, President Bush, should directly apologize to our people."

internal politics

[chequita guevara]

El Leon, you are partially incorrect. The US military behaves roughly the same at home as it does abroad. Here in my exceedingly anti-porn state is the city of Jacksonville, which is a huge naval base. Mucho porn shops and strip clubs. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of prostitution here too.

[Jac de Molay]

It's a cultural thing. The act of apologizing in Far East countries is considered almost an act of nobility and humility. Unlike the US, where an apology is a green light to sue the crap out of somebody.

[GePap]

If a coule of dilomats drivng around ran over two small girls in the US, and then the two diplomats were sent home and cleared of any negligence there would be plenty of angry people in the US demanding some sort of appology from the government. After all, people dying is far more serious than, let say, someone's persobnal comment about someone else, and yet even that brings about calls for apologies and resignations.

[El León]

Originally posted by Japher
Whatever.

I agree that they are being rediculous for wanting an apology from Bush for an accident that he had nothing, personally, to do with.

Um, maybe I am confused, but the apology is asked from Bush not as a person, but as the representative of the country which stationed the troops that ran over the girls.

We could say sorry, "Sorry we ran over those girls, it is a big tragedy, and we will regret the incident for the rest of our lives. And, since you are so concernded of US involvement in your country, we will kindly step back from the board...

I do not see how these are related in any way. The military can be in Korea and not run over school girls, and apologize when they do so, without that meaning that they shoud not be there. Also, the US cannot change history or make north Korea apologize, but it can set the example.

And DetroitDave brings up something very important - people in the US have no clue as to what Koreans mean when they ask for an apology. It IS a very strong admission of wrongdoing, but also, as DD points out, the kind of act of nobility expected from someone who is a leader.

[DanS]

Why is humility demanded of the US? We're there for a reason. If they don't agree with that reason, why not just argue against it on that basis?

"If a coule of dilomats drivng around ran over two small girls in the US, and then the two diplomats were sent home and cleared of any negligence there would be plenty of angry people in the US demanding some sort of appology from the government."

We would focus on the negligence. A Georgian diplomat was in this situation a couple of years ago. We asked if we could try him in US court, because his BAC was 3x the legal limit.

IOW, the negligence was real. In this situation, I don't even know if there was any negligence.

[chequita guevara]

In Asia you apologize for everything. They just need to realize we aren't Asian.

[DanS]

"In Asia you apologize for everything."

It appears so. But why?

[chequita guevara]

I don't know. I was reading a list of "You know you've been in Japan too long when . . . " and a lot of it had to do with spending more time apologizing than talking about things of substance.

[DanS]

[GePap]

Originally posted by DanS
Why is humility demanded of the US? We're there for a reason. If they don't agree with that reason, why not just argue against it on that basis?

We would focus on the negligence. A Georgian diplomat was in this exact situation a couple of years ago. We asked if we could try him in US court, because his BAC was 3x the legal limit.

IOW, the negligence was real. In this situation, I don't even know if there was any negligence.

This is not an Asian issue. KOreans, just like Okinawans, have to deal with whatever the aggrevations and dangers of having major military based near your home, and they aren't even your own nation's bases, but someone else's, which means you have very little political say about whether they stay in your neighborhood or not anyway. If in any other part of the world major military bases existed so damn close to a foreign military base, you would see this issue come up often aftre ever singe such incident. And that way the s handles incident is much like the police handles incident in the US :clumsily, with not attention to public sentiments or publicity.

[DanS]

OK, I can grok that. But there are similar issues around German and Italian bases and we seem to be able to work things out without requiring an apology from the President.