IF tommorow the Palestinian people peacably protested in the street+did so for month

[Ming]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
*sigh*

Would you mind telling me what you think is a proper response, then?

Yeah... ignore it...

because if you lob a personal insult at somebody, you will get restricted.

[CyberGnu]

As I said, even though silence is an implicit agreement?

[Ming]

Only in your warped perception of reality.

[S. Kroeze]

Originally posted by Ming
Yeah... ignore it...

because if you lob a personal insult at somebody, you will get restricted.

Dear Sir,

Perhaps it would be nice when you as moderator would also keep away from insulting people. To my knowledge you are the only poster on this Forum who has ever insulted me more than once.
Afterwards I discovered you do so frequently on these pages.
I might add that it is not my habit to abuse other posters. I do not like double standards.

Sincere regards,

S.Kroeze

[Ming]

Originally posted by S. Kroeze
Perhaps it would be nice when you as moderator would also keep away from insulting people. To my knowledge you are the only poster on this Forum who has ever insulted me more than once.
Afterwards I discovered you do so frequently on these pages.
I might add that it is not my habit to abuse other posters. I do not like double standards.

You are welcome to your opinion... even when it's incorrect...

If you have a problem with the moderation, contact the management via PM or email... don't spam threads with it.

Now get back on topic.

[CyberGnu]

Well, you are the moderator.

I have never reported a post to a moderator, but I guess I shall have to learn the habit...

I do expect you to uphold the same rules for pro-israelis, of course. "Anti-semite", for example, is an insult.

[CyberGnu]

To get back on topic:

Ned: (reposted from page 21)

CyberGnu, The Brits took Palestine from the Turks. Because it was multi-ethnic, they held the land as a Mandate under the League of Nations and its successor the United Nations, rather than immediately establish a local government or turn it over to Faisal. (They proposed to do the same for Lebanon for the same reason.)

I will stop here to see if we agree on this much.

Well, not quite... I don't know what you mean with multi-ethnic. Less than 10% of the population was jewish, and as far as I know that was the only major ethnicity outside of arabs in the area. I have also never heard this explanation for the mandate.

AFAIK, the mandate was established in the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which is basically just another part of "the Big Game". The three great powers of the first world war agreed to establish spheres of influence in what was at the time the ottoman empire. Russia got armenia, France the areas Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, and England the areas south.

While it cannot be considered certain that palestine was left under a joint "international" mandate because France and England couldn't agree who should have it, as opposed to a genuine concern over the people living there, we all know the French and British records of altruism. Slim to non existent... And considering the Balfour declaration (issued only a year after the Sykes-Picot Agreement) it is pretty clear that England had no intentions of even adhering to the promises made to the indigeneous population.

So, basically, it was just another self-serving part of Englands intent on adding large parts of the arab world to the British Empire.

[Sirotnikov]

Now this took me AEONS to find. Apparently the ******** search feature only goes back to 24th of october.... this is from 11th :

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=1360274#post1360274

If you bothered to read the previous thread, you would see that I never condemned Die Welt. I said [u]they either made up or failed to check one particular story[u]. I also wondered whether Die Welt is a jewish magazine. I know one of the major german language papers is a jewish publication, but I'm not sure which one it is. I asked for information regarding this.

Of course, all this fits in the 'facts' category, which you so vehemently object to.

Why would you see to check if the newspaper is Jewish? Would it then somehow rationalize the fact it lied?

Why would you begin to wonder if Die Welt is a Jewish magazine, if not as a reason to explain it's "unreliability" or even "lies"?

Why would what you think is "unreliability" or "lies" (as you said) a trait that seems to belong to a Jewish newspaper?

Are you suggesting that unreliability or spreading lies is a ... Jewish trait?

I bet If you would have discovered it was Jewish, you would have made a histerical allegation like that German Jews are inventing propoganda against Palestinians.



Waiting for an evasive explanation and an accusation of being a zionist propogandist.

[Sirotnikov]

Now, again, before you say I'm accusing you of anti-semitism:

You could have said "I wondered if the paper is an Israeli magazine" or "run by Israeli sympathizers" or "run by Zionists". But you went on "Jews".

Checking to see if the newspaper was Jewish, as if to "prove" somehow that it was unreliable.

This means that you are basing your thought on the assupmtion that:

Jewish --> Lies


Doesn't look specifically anti-zionist or anti-israeli to me.

EDIT: spelling after midnight... oy vey

[CyberGnu]

No, Siro, lying is not a specific jewish trait. It is a human trait, and many groups have used it to further their cause.

I don't hold jews to a higher standards than I hold other parts of humanity. So, in the same way I wouldn't trust a communist newspaper in an article about the evils of capitalism, or an arab newspaper in an article about american imperilism, I wouldn't trust a jewish newspaper to report accurately about Israel. Jews, as a group, are overwhelmingly pro-Israel, to the point where when a jewish group speaks out against Israel is becomes headline news. Thus, one can, barring conflicting information, assume that a jewish paper is also pro-israeli. I also assumed you would make that connection yourself.

This is of course part of my refusal to consider biased sources trustworthy. As I've also patiently explained to you about, oh, a few hundred times, this doesn't mean they automatically lie. It means that one cannot trust them.


BTW, are you claiming that Die Welt didn't make the story up? The story is more than a year old by now, and AFAIK, no al-qaeda fighters have turned up in palestine.

[Sirotnikov]

Jews, as a group, are overwhelmingly pro-Israel, to the point where when a jewish group speaks out against Israel is becomes headline news. Thus, one can, barring conflicting information, assume that a jewish paper is also pro-israeli. I also assumed you would make that connection yourself.

Tsk tsk tsk.

You know that Jews and Israelis are not always the same people. To assume that Jews are always pro-Israeli would be generalizing. To generalize a race to a certain nationality or political view is to some extent racist, since you practically hold all the Jews responsible for the "crimes" of Zionism, even though many Jews aren't zionist and many are anti-zionist.

BTW, are you claiming that Die Welt didn't make the story up? The story is more than a year old by now, and AFAIK, no al-qaeda fighters have turned up in palestine.

The article talked about the camp in Lebanon. Just because several lebanese decided to say that there aren't any al-qaeda there and were quoted by the BBC, doesn't mean there isn't (or that there is). You believe there isn't - I believe there are. But you can't say one report is more sound than another.

As far as the american hushing and denial goes - they also hush the fact they are doing bussiness with bin laden's family and that the saudis are doing bussiness with bin laden's family.


And there are al-qaeda in the PA in very small numbers, according to recent intelligence.

[CyberGnu]

Siro, why don't you go back and read what I actually wrote?

in particular to this sentence of yours:
To assume that Jews are always pro-Israeli would be generalizing.

I figured I'd be nice and give you a chance to correct yourself before I point it out.

To generalize a race to a certain nationality or political view is to some extent racist, since you practically hold all the Jews responsible for the "crimes" of Zionism, even though many Jews aren't zionist and many are anti-zionist.

No, siro. We are talking about a jewish organization (in this case a newspaper) that caters to a jewish audience. As such, it is almost certain to hold the same view as the general view of that audience.

The article talked about the camp in Lebanon. Just because several lebanese decided to say that there aren't any al-qaeda there and were quoted by the BBC, doesn't mean there isn't (or that there is). You believe there isn't - I believe there are. But you can't say one report is more sound than another.

So, just because there is no evidence for an outlandish accusation, that doesn't mean it isn't true, and since it might be true, you are going to believe it. Pray tell, what wouldn't you believe if Die Welt wrote it? Aliens landing and taking over the white house? Mutant goats eating australia?

And there are al-qaeda in the PA in very small numbers, according to recent intelligence.

Would this be "undisclosed sources", also known as "the latest stuff the mossad comes up with to justify their budget"?

As far as the american hushing and denial goes - they also hush the fact they are doing bussiness with bin laden's family and that the saudis are doing bussiness with bin laden's family.

Hushed? It has appeared in all american news papers, AFAIK, it is just that no one cares. Have you seen his family tree? It is hard to do business in Saudi-Arabia without doing business with at least one member of his family...

[DinoDoc]

Would someone care to fill in the peanut gallery what the spat over Die Welt is about?

[CyberGnu]

The JP posted a headline story about al-quida operating in palestinian camps. The story was referenced to "die Welt". Initially no refernece to the story could be found on the die Welt homepage, which turned out to be because the search engine was case sensitive.

The story is made up, the only real difference is who made it up - the buck was passed from the JP to die Welt. Even american intelligence has said the accusations are false...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
The JP posted a headline story about al-quida operating in palestinian camps.

Is this about the gun battle in a refugee camp in Lebanon or another story altogether?