IF tommorow the Palestinian people peacably protested in the street+did so for month

[Az]

If you want an paper that really tackles the new historians you can have this:

http://www.meforum.org/article/466

enjoy

[gsmoove23]

Originally posted by Azazel
where does he exactly show his agenda?

for example, Avi Shlaim in his work always uses to give adjectives to the sides : "Pragmatic" "Flexible" to arab leaders ( ) and "stubborn" "rigid" to the Israeli leadership.

where does this guy show his bias, except , perhaps, in his view against his opponents on the debate. ( lack of proffecionalism )

I said some of my reasons above, c'mon we're on different sides of the issue, of course we're not going to agree on our proph... er historians.

[Az]

oh, I changed my views in accordance to facts, many times in apolyton, as well. I have testimonies. you're the stubborn ******* here.

anyway, it's 1:50AM here, and I've got to got to the uni tomorrow ( or is it today ). nighty night....

[gsmoove23]

Stubborn ****er? I used to call Israel terrorists. The problem is someone decides to do some research, they change their opinion a few times and then they get stuck in the mud when they think they know everything, its a fact of life. Not sure if I'm there yet though, 2 years ago I thought Israel was the good guys.

G'night

[Ned]

gsmoove, I grew up watching the events unfold in the ME. I knew that Israel was fighting for its life with the Arabs. They fully intended to destroy Israel and kill every Jew they could.

To us who watched the events unfold, we were amazed by the repeated Israeli victories against seemingly large odds. It was indeed an inspiring story.

Since I have been out of school for decades, I was shocked to see the revisionist history put forth here by many. I was and am still shocked by the virulent anti-Israeli feelings that so many here have.

As to the Palestinians, their leadership is their own worst enemy. By endlessly committing terrorist acts against Israel, they push out the possibilty of peace. Many here believe terrorism is caused solely by the occupation. However, it started well before that, while the West Bank and Gaza were still in Arab hands. Their objective then, as it appears to be now, is the destruction of Israel. Why do I say this? Because Arafat was the leader of the terrorists then and is he still is in charge now.

I am convinced that peace is impossible so long as that man lives.

Netanyahu is right.

[CyberGnu]

Ned, revisionist history, or historians finally pushing through the smokescreen your media reported?

In one sense, maybe it would be for the best if Arafat disappeared. Without Arafat, Sharon wouldn;t have anyone to blame, and maybe actually be forced to do something that advanced peace.

Ah, who am I kidding. Of course that would never happen. Sharon would find a new group to blame within ten minutes... All supported by "credible sources", of course.

Arafat is not the obstacle to peace... Sharon and his ilk is.

[Az]

hmm, what would make you change your views, Gnu?

[Ned]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Ned, revisionist history, or historians finally pushing through the smokescreen your media reported?

In one sense, maybe it would be for the best if Arafat disappeared. Without Arafat, Sharon wouldn;t have anyone to blame, and maybe actually be forced to do something that advanced peace.

Ah, who am I kidding. Of course that would never happen. Sharon would find a new group to blame within ten minutes... All supported by "credible sources", of course.

Arafat is not the obstacle to peace... Sharon and his ilk is.

CyberGnu, Remember it was Begin and Sharon who made peace with Egypt.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
CyberGnu, Remember it was Begin and Sharon who made peace with Egypt.

Because they needed to secure their back as they prepared to invade Lebanon, which they did once the peace treaty was signed in 1977. The US yanked their leash then, but four years later with a President who was willing to allow the Israelis to do anything, they atacked again, and killed more people than in any Arab-Israel war before or since.

[Az]

So, all Israel wants is to kill arabs? you're better than that, che.

[gsmoove23]

No Azazel, all Begin and Sharon want to do is kill arabs.

[gsmoove23]

Ned, it only makes sense that 30 years after the fact when documents are released in many involved countries that history would have to be re-evaluated. I wouldn't put the revisionists on a pedestal but I bet that truth is somewhere between them and the old-school.

For my part, I grew up in New York, didn't pay much attention to the ME but had the general idea that Israelis were the good guys because you couldn't help but think that if all you saw was US media.

[Az]

No Azazel, all Begin and Sharon want to do is kill arabs

I get too much of that crap from Gnu. If you're being ironic, pardon me for not noticing.

[gsmoove23]

Well, I was being sarcastic, as the smiley might show, but only slightly. Are you not willing to admit there are some evil bastards in the Israeli government?

[gsmoove23]

I'm truly sorry guys but I found this and I just had to post considering the thread topic...


"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr.