poly's political compass

[roalan]

Originally posted by monkspider
In the first years of the Revolution, The soviets (workers' and peasants' councils) were running the state and the economy and everyone was allowed to participate in them. All political parties were allowed to participate in soviet elections and debates and put forward their ideas. It is also a little known fact that the first Soviet government was in fact a coalition between the Bolshevik party and the Left Social Revolutionaries. The only parties not allowed were those which had taken arms against Soviet power.

Within the Communist Party there was the widest of democracies. During the discussion of the Brest-Litovsk peace agreement with Germany there were at least three different fractions within the CP with different opinions. One of them, the Left Communists, headed by Bukharin, even published for a while a daily paper, "The Communist", opposing Lenin's position on the issue!

Yea and names were taken and faces were remembered and soon after that the trains were moving to Siberia packed with those same people..

[Ramo]

There is a FAQ on the website that explains that the poll was made from a european standpoint where the definition of libertarian may be slightly different.

But the libertarian title refers to your stance on authority and its role in social life while the left, right refers to economics. I see no problem with this.

Left libertarianism is anarchism, not social democracy, regardless of which country you're in. And economics have everything to do with authority; divorcing the issues is nonsense.

[roalan]

Originally posted by monkspider
In the first years of the Revolution, The soviets (workers' and peasants' councils) were running the state and the economy and everyone was allowed to participate in them. All political parties were allowed to participate in soviet elections and debates and put forward their ideas. It is also a little known fact that the first Soviet government was in fact a coalition between the Bolshevik party and the Left Social Revolutionaries. The only parties not allowed were those which had taken arms against Soviet power.

Within the Communist Party there was the widest of democracies. During the discussion of the Brest-Litovsk peace agreement with Germany there were at least three different fractions within the CP with different opinions. One of them, the Left Communists, headed by Bukharin, even published for a while a daily paper, "The Communist", opposing Lenin's position on the issue!

There is not a country or an era in the history of the world that has done what you say above..Why even here in the cradle of Liberty Massachuesetts USA we have the Speaker of the House,elected for life, voted in by 7600 votes in his district. We call him "Tommy Taxes" We just got ourselves a new Gov. elected by over 1 million votes. Yesterday he went ,hat in hand, to visit Tommy Taxes to ask him if he would roll back the taxes just imposed on us. His answer was
This new Gov. has as much chance of doing the peoples will as you would have under your Commie friends. 7600 votes rule over a million..The only time the peoples will rules,for a short time, is in a revolution. And that lasts about a day or two. Then anyone who may be a threat to the new leaders are ( I do not see a icon of someone shooting someone else)

[monkspider]

Not true at all actually Roalan, we wouldn't see any kind of rise of a despotic bureaucracy in the Soviet Union until shortly after Stalin came to power, and the people who were shot or sent to gulags had virtually nothing to do with the democracy of the early Soviet Union, but almostly exclusively with Stalin's paranoia. I know that we as Americans aren't actually supposed to say these things, but they are literally true.

[Thrawn05]

Economic Left/Right: 2.75
Authoritarian/Libertarian: 4.51

I'm on the strong moral right, but when if I was in politics, and able to make laws, I would be a moderate moral right. Since neither the far left and far right should be used to make a laws.

Fun test.

[Ramo]

Early on Gsmoove, during Lenin's day. It is also a little known fact that for a while, the Soviet Union was the most democratic country in the history of the world.

Umm.. like how broke strikes, replaced worker ownership with state ownership, militarized labor in general, used flimsy pretexts to physically crush political opposition, and so forth? Doesn't sound very democratic to me.

The only parties not allowed were those which had taken arms against Soviet power.

Uh huh.

[monkspider]

Hey, I thought you were on my side Ramo.

[roalan]

Monkeyspider

If that is the type of country you like China is still ,temporarily,available.Move there. Don't forget Cuba they are supposed to be a wonderful form of Communist. I would go there if I was you,keep your exit tickes handy because when Castro goes -so goes the commies-to the dust heap of Cuba's history.

[gsmoove23]

Originally posted by Ramo


Left libertarianism is anarchism, not social democracy, regardless of which country you're in. And economics have everything to do with authority; divorcing the issues is nonsense.

libertarianism is only anarchic if you take it in its most extreme form. Most political labels are pretty sketchy in their most extreme forms. Left certainly wouldn't be anarchic since they would want a strong central government with strong controls. Sure economics has everything to do with authority, creating a multidimensional scale is an attempt to give traditional political descriptions of people some depth though and making a distinction between political control over peoples lives and actions and their wallets seems appropriate.

Read the FAQ and you'll see some people use different definitions then yourself for terms we all may take for granted.

[gsmoove23]

Was that a failed attempt at some pinko propaganda Monkspider? I think the giveaway was MOST democratic. After all we all know that America is and always was the MOST democratic country in the world, right? Right? Anyone...

[Ramo]

Anarchists invented the term left libertarian. Social democracy (a strong social welfare state) is very different. It isn't libertarian at all.

Hey, I thought you were on my side Ramo.

[roalan]

gsmoove23

Right we agree on something else -we are on a roll..

[monkspider]

Roly- Cuba actually has the highest standard of living of any third world country IIRC, even higher than Taiwan last time I checked. Cuba wouldn't be so bad a place to live, in the grand scheme of things. China of course is an evil dictatorship, closer to fascism than any form of Marxism.
Anyway, just because I'm a commie doesn't mean that I'm going to give up and move away. I think much more good can be done as an American. America is almost ideal in that respect actually.

[gsmoove23]

You seem to believe Roalan that Marx isn't alive and well in your own great nation today, unless the welfare state and unions were purely capitalist ideas. Course in the US he had to be a lot more subtle then in Europe. DEATH to all pure forms!!!

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by sabrewolf

this is a good one a quote for in someone's signature.

I meant to put I can't speak it but can understand a good amount....

i said that...

you're right, berlusconi is a capitalist. but he's also extremely corrupt. he's a corrupt capitalist.

And you are a communist... so who can believe a word of a leftist? I definitely cannot.

He is a good leader, and a good stateman.