Russian Forces Enter Theatre, End Hostage Situation

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Another thing I have been wondering is, even if the Russians caved in to the terrorist demands, what gaurantees them won't blow up the theatre anyway? None. Nothing.

This is not the issue, IMHO, but rather that the special forces panicked and assaulted without proper preparations. They thought the terrorists were killing the hostages (which turned out to be false), which prompted the special forces to attack. Had the special forces waited several hours more, they would have had time to get in enough doctors with anti-dotes, ambulances and first aid equipment.

The leader of the chechens (and all other terrorists in the theatre, too) did not look like they were very unstable or unpredictable. They had some very serious real threaths, but at no point was there any evidence that they would have used them without being provoked to.

[Sir Og]

I think that Russians have handled the situation pretty well given the circumstances. We should all bare in mind that the whole thing could have ended with 700+ people dead under the ruined theater building.

[Combat Ingrid]

It's apparent that Russia has the same problem as US and Israel, whatever they do, they do the wrong thing

Good thing I live in Sweden, we never do anything

[Urban Ranger]

Too cold up there

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Hurricane


This is not the issue, IMHO, but rather that the special forces panicked and assaulted without proper preparations. They thought the terrorists were killing the hostages (which turned out to be false), which prompted the special forces to attack. Had the special forces waited several hours more, they would have had time to get in enough doctors with anti-dotes, ambulances and first aid equipment.

The leader of the chechens (and all other terrorists in the theatre, too) did not look like they were very unstable or unpredictable. They had some very serious real threaths, but at no point was there any evidence that they would have used them without being provoked to.

From one of my posts, earlier in this thread:

The presence of 18 female suicide fighters with explosives strapped to their waists among the hundreds of frightened theatregoers added to the atmosphere of fear and violence, Chernyak said.

"These Chechen girls, they were so happy that finally they were about to be free, that finally they were about to blow themselves up," Chernyak said.

She said the women -- each carrying up to two kilos (4.4 pounds) of explosives stuffed with ball-bearings and nails -- repeatedly told terrified hostages they were looking forward to dying and taking others with them.

"When they heard a noise from outside -- some eight hours before the storming -- they immediately dispersed among the audience," Chernyak said.

"did not look like they were very unstable or unpredictable"?

[Hurricane]

The fact that they at that point did not detonate the bombs only shows that they were very organised and disciplined. No way would they have blown up the theatre just because they "wanted to die". Their goal was to get the russians to withdraw from Chechnya, not to kill as many civilians as possible.

Don't get me wrong, however. I very much agree that the special forces would have had to assault the theatre at one point or the other. What I am saying is just that there was no sign of the chechens doing anything which would have forced the russians to storm the house when they did it. The russians could well have waited a bit longer until all preparations were ready.

-Edited for clarity-

[Saint Marcus]

It's sad that so many people don't see a problem if the gas used was a banned substance. Do you, those people who see it that way, also think we should scrap the ban on such agents? Also, if Russia can use banned chemical weapons (providing the weapon they used was banned), why can't Iraq and North Korea do the same? (that said, Iraq has already used it against the Kurds (who of course are terrorists, just ask the Turks, another American ally)).

[The Mad Monk]

Marcus, why are the gasses banned?

[Pekka]

If it was 'illegal' substance used, then there's a small problem. FSB is holding the info, therefore osbtructing the treatment and possible anti-dotes. It would explain the reason of hiding the information, but I wouldn't expect them to shout 'we have this and that' even if it is 'legal' substance.

If it is 'illegal', then they have crossed a certain line making it clear they're willing to use these kinds of chemicals if needed. And that makes Putins decision even harder.. I believe it still saved lives of many, legal or illegal. I won't be the first to judge Putin, he's in a tight spot right now and maybe made the crusial decision knowing the consequences. Fact remains it saved lives.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by axi
I don't really care about what they could have done. Putin and his cronies are responsible for this ****,

I think that you should put the blame where it belongs. On the people that held the people hostage to begin with.

[The Mad Monk]

246 people have been released from the hospital. 246 that may well have been dead now.

[Saint Marcus]

small comfort for families of the 117 that died from the gas, and the 45 still in critical condition.

Of all the many people that died, only 2 were killed by the terrorists, and the other 117 (or higher) by the Russian special forces.

[MOBIUS]

Well, I guess I have to apologise to St. Marcus for my (ahem) little outburst before...

I have this hollow feeling that I should be outraged at Russia's actions, but I really cannot think of another alternative...

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
small comfort for families of the 117 that died from the gas, and the 45 still in critical condition.

Of all the many people that died, only 2 were killed by the terrorists, and the other 117 (or higher) by the Russian special forces.

As opposed to having them all die at terrorist hands.

[DinoDoc]

Since you (MOBIUS) seems to have migrated to this thread, can you respond to this post for me?