Why I believe capitalism is morally wrong and evil...

[David Floyd]

I STILL find it curious that, even though Sava posted an emotional appeal to morality and right and wrong in his title, he still hasn't come out to debate the morality of his ideas.

In fact, it seems the only person who's even touched on the morality issue is Ramo, and his points have been well refuted as far as I can see.

Could it be that capitalism is, in fact, NOT "morally wrong and evil", and as such he won't attempt to seriously argue that it is? Personally, I'm going with that explanation.

[Sheik]

Originally Posted by Ned:

So, I suggest to those who do not like capitalism, simply form a socialist island and live there. Don’t try to take capitalism or whatever we have in the US away from the rest of us who like it the way it is.

You always have intelligent things to say. I would love to see people in a communist government try to set up a capitalist "island".

[dudemanjack]

Originally posted by Sava

Don't underestimate me Asher. My family came to this country from war torn Europe with nothing and has built a moderately high degree of economic standing. Each generation has been more successful than the previous one. My grandfather built a successful business, and at 82, still works 6 full days a week. My mother is a VP for a clinical laboratory company that employs 40k. I am currently on my way to finishing a 4 year degree in computers. I'm 5 years, I'll have my own company. I plan on getting an MBA and going to law school.

So your family started with nothing in the U.S., and under our terrible capitalistic society, became succesful.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sheik




You always have intelligent things to say. I would love to see people in a communist government try to set up a capitalist "island".

You would be amazed, but NK is trying to set one up in the North on its border with China. As well, China seem to have area, such as Hong Kong, where it permits capitalism.

[Ned]

Sava, While there are numerous example in history and even today where people voluntarily live on socialist environments, I have mentioned several, there is a problem with many socialist countries where socialism is "imposed" against the will of the people - i.e., not voted in. They often find that many simply do not want to live in the new paradise. The common practice for these socialist countries is to mine their borders and shoot the capitalist pigs in the back as they try to flee.

This is hardly moral.

Sava, European countries are far more socialist than the US. Why don't you consider moving to one?

[DrSpike]

Hey! You can keep all the commies bred by your country thanks very much.

[Odin]

The best solution, I think, would be that all large bussinesess be coopratives, the people are the company, like many farmers do.

All capitalism creates in an unregulated enviroment is ENRON.

[Ramo]

If you don't know anyone who started with nothing and became very succesful, then I feel sorry for you, but there's really nothing anyone can do about that.

>>>I wonder how the Frankfurter's chain started? Or any other chain of hot dog stands.

The key word there was operator. The success at the level you refer to ultimately relies on hiring other people.

The point is that many businesses rely on economies of scale. It isn't practical, in most cases, to secure liberty without either going under or taking away the liberty of others. Unless the business is socialist.

I wonder if a hot dog stand owner, instead of putting his kids through college, instead franchised, how incredibly successful he would be by the time he was 65?

So he'd have to sacrifice his kids' eduction? That sounds like a pretty crappy deal...

I don't think it was me who resorted to name calling you names out of an inability to defend my point of view.

I guess we now see who the true hypocrite is. I was only "name calling" after I've been insulted first. Namely those idiotic references to my supposed greed (at the expense of everyone else) and the accuastion of hypocrisy when you know absolutely squat about what I advocate.

I guess that means you were unable to defend your point of view.

Here is your hypocrisy, you want anarchy, but you want everyone else to start first.

Huh? Socialism isn't possible without the consent of other people. I'm not in a permanent job right now (in fact, I'm in transistion between temporary jobs), so I can't "start first." Once I do get one, you can rest assured that I will try to get my co-workers to buy up our business.

You seem to be a libertarian. Why don't you stop everything you're doing, and go off to help found that "Libertaria" place y'all like to talk about. If you don't like the US government why don't you actually do something "beside(sic) ***** and moan?" I guess that makes you a hypocrite...

Get off your computer, get rid off all your goods acquired through capitalism, go find yourself a commune, and become an Anarchist.

Leave the US, found Libertaria, and become a Libertarian.

Fact is, you know deep down your "anarchy" is just as "idiotic"

Fact is, you know deep down your "libertarianism" is just as "idiotic."

In fact, it seems the only person who's even touched on the morality issue is Ramo, and his points have been well refuted as far as I can see.

Bah! I don't loose by default.

[Admiral PJ]

People like NeOmega are part of the problem , such anarchist absurdity means you don't deserve to have the vote.

[kolpo]

The trouble is that people are in those treaths often more dicusing theories then reality. The universum is so so complex that no theory is able to correctly decribe something as complex as economics so all we have is reality.

So you don't have to look in those stupid, worthless, far from reality theories but instead towards real nations and ask yourself the question: "In want nation would I want to live?" the system of the nation is most likely the system you will be best off with. If I look around is my answer "Sweden" because it has high average incomens, high income equality, good health care, good education, low polution, less crime, high life expectations, very democratic government and foreight policies I like. So that is the model I consider best and all the other theory and dicusion is just theory and discusion far away from any form of reality.

Off course if you find personal freedoms very important won't you choose Sweden but will you choose the US but that's just a personal opion and discusing about that is pointless.

Thrown all worthless theories and discusions you want againsts this it is still the reality no mather what.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why shouldn't we? The world is capitalistic. It isn't practical to divorce ourselves from the system.

And that is why socialism will never work. You are all sell outs .

[Odin]

Mass migration to Sweden everybody, the liberals shall consolidate thier power there and turn capitalism into a big word you learn in history class.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why shouldn't we? The world is capitalistic. It isn't practical to divorce ourselves from the system.

And that is why socialism will never work. You are all sell outs .

CONSEVATIVE BASHING TIME

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sorry missed me, I'm a Libertarian .

LEFT-WING BASHING

Bow to your masters .

[NeOmega]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ramo

The key word there was operator. The success at the level you refer to ultimately relies on hiring other people.

>>>To go from nothing to something, at one point in your life you will have to be the servant. Have you ever payed money to be served? If so you are an evil capitalist. People don't like being the servant, but in a sense they do. Many would much rather be told what to do to make money than to have to go find money in the world.

So he'd have to sacrifice his kids' eduction? That sounds like a pretty crappy deal...

>>>Not really, if his kids went to college, they would also make alot of money, and if you take into account the fact he invested that money in them, he would still be a millionaire. Only thing is, most kids do not give all their money back to the investor.
I ony said this to point out that the way people invest their money is why many people are not millionaires; they are spreading the wealth amongst their family members.

Huh? Socialism isn't possible without the consent of other people.

>>>So you advocate violence to achieve your vision of Utopia?

I'm not in a permanent job right now (in fact, I'm in transistion between temporary jobs), so I can't "start first." Once I do get one, you can rest assured that I will try to get my co-workers to buy up our business.

Yeah right.

You seem to be a libertarian. Why don't you stop everything you're doing, and go off to help found that "Libertaria" place y'all like to talk about. If you don't like the US government why don't you actually do something "beside(sic) ***** and moan?" I guess that makes you a hypocrite...

>>Libertaria was founded in 1776, it's been twisted into a communo-fascist state. But aside from that I do do alot of community service, and political activism.

Fact is, you know deep down your "libertarianism" is just as "idiotic."

>>>Naw, my principals are non-violent.