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Before we Americans get accused once again of ethnocentrics (and constant reminders of 9/11), I wish to offer my deepest condolences to all the vistims and families. A year or so ago, I probably would have chocked this all up to some idiots in a far corner of the world. In a sense our tragedy of last year has made me much more empathetic to other's losses and as a consequence will not allow me to diminish the horror and misguided evil that these latest acts represent against innocents. Regardless of reason for attacks the victims first and foremost in our thoughts (and prayers).
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter
These acts are repugnant to common decency and humanity. I hope the perpetrators are hunted down.
I disagree with Case in the statement that this act would lessen Australian support for US military intervention in Iraq. If it is proven ( or at least widely assumed) that Muslim extremists were responsible, then I believe you would see a hardening of Australian resolve to fight terrorism and a willingness to accept more and more agressive action to do so.
Thats what i see coming out of America after 9-11 and i would expect much the same attitude from pretty much any western country if directly attacked. I just don't see the people kowtowing and wanting to become isolationist. What I foresee is a nation enraged and wanting to strike back
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
Originally posted by Case
Incidently, I like the way Australians start apportioning blame as soon as a disarster hits - it certainly beats US style flag waving.
Isn't it great?
The Americans rally behind their leaders and wallow in that gooey flag based sentimentality they love so much.
We get the wounded in, clear up the dead, give our leaders a big slap in the head, make a hanging knot out of our flag and get ready to go after those who did it
The practical way Australians are dealing with this is probably the only bright spot in the whole damn mess. Does make you quite proud to be Australian in a quiet sort of way.
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Originally posted by Sprayber
Case: If the reason Australia refuses to do something is because it is afraid of these attacks then expect to see this everytime Oz is confronted with a difficult decison. Make your arguments about it being wrong or right about attacking Iraq all you want but the reason better not be because you are afraid.
Sprayber, Australia doesn't have a very big military. Hence any Aussie commitment to Iraq will require that a large and well trained portion of the Australian military will have to be sent outside Australia at a time when Australian's feel directly threatened. As such, it would be political suicide to commit troops to Iraq.
'Arguing with anonymous strangers on the internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous sixteen year olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.'
- Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
Originally posted by Case
Sprayber, Australia doesn't have a very big military.
I thought that was the reason you went to all of our wars.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
No we'll probably send military forces to Iraq. This Bali thing doesn't require troops - its a police and intelligence op. They already know who the bombers were. Just gotta find em now.
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Victims came from at least 20 countries
October 15 2002
The powerful car-bomb on the Indonesian island of Bali killed more than 180 people and left hundreds more wounded.
The following countries have reported nationals to be either dead, wounded or missing. Many of those unaccounted for are not necessarily victims of the blast but have not been located yet by their families or governments:
AUSTRALIA: 14 Australians have been confirmed dead but Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said today that the final toll would be "very much higher". More than 200 Australians were injured. The foreign ministry said some 200 Australians remained unaccounted for, but it expected some of them to turn up as travellers contacted their families.
BRITAIN: 33 Britons are believed to have been killed in the attack, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said today. Straw told reporters in London "we are as certain as we can be" that 18 Britons were among the dead and 15 Britons still missing were also believed to have been killed.
CANADA: A Canadian national is being treated for burns at Singapore General Hospital, a hospital spokeswoman said.
DENMARK: Three Danish women aged between 18 and 21 are missing following the blast, the Danish ambassador to Jakarta told the Ritzau news agency today. Two Danes were injured but were out of danger, Gert Aagard Andersen said.
ECUADOR: An Ecuadorian was among the dead, according to Ketut Semara Jaya, an Indonesian doctor in Bali tasked with identifying the victims.
FRANCE: French officials said today they were trying to confirm whether a French national was among the dead. Of the five French citizens wounded, three were evacuated to Singapore in serious condition, foreign ministry spokesman Francois Rivasseau said.
GERMANY: A German woman was among the dead, 10 Germans were wounded and 12 were missing, according to the German foreign ministry. Of the injured, four have been released from the hospital and the remaining six were in Australia or on their way there for treatment, a ministry spokesman said.
GREECE: The Greek foreign ministry said one Greek national was wounded and another was reported missing.
HONG KONG: Ten members of a Hong Kong rugby tour have been missing since the blast, the Hong Kong Football Club, said in a statement Monday. Seven Britons, one American and a German were unaccounted for, their club said. The 10th missing member of the tour party, Briton Charles Vanrenen, 26, was believed to be on his way to Australia for treatment.
INDONESIA: Nine Indonesians have been confirmed dead but the figure is expected to rise significantly with the identification of more of the victims. Nearly 200 Indonesians were injured in the blast, Indonesian officials said.
ITALY: The Italian foreign ministry said six Italians were slightly injured in the blasts. They were treated in hospital and released.
JAPAN: Seven Japanese women were injured, according to the foreign ministry in Tokyo, including two sisters suffering from severe burns who were evacuated to Singapore on Monday.
NETHERLANDS: A Dutch man is missing following the blast, according to the Dutch news agency ANP. Ketut Semara Jaya, an Indonesian doctor in Bali tasked with identifying the victims, said a Dutch national was among the dead.
NEW ZEALAND: New Zealand foreign ministry spokesman Brad Tattersfield said 12 New Zealanders had been reported injured in the blasts, with eight requiring hospital treatment. Two had been seriously burnt. The ministry said it is trying to account for 195 New Zealanders. The missing were not necessarily victims, said Tattersfield, but "people that family members have told us are in Bali at the moment".
SOUTH AFRICA: One South African national was seriously wounded and two others are missing, the South African foreign ministry said.
SOUTH KOREA: A pair of South Korean sisters, Moon Eun-young, 31, and Moon Eun-Jong, 29, are believed to have visited the club where the blast occurred and are listed as missing, the foreign ministry in Seoul said.
SWEDEN: 10 Swedes are missing and three young Swedish women were wounded in the attack, the Swedish foreign ministry said today.
SWITZERLAND: A Swiss woman was killed and another five Swiss citizens were injured in the explosion, the Swiss foreign ministry said. Two of the injured were in critical condition.
TAIWAN: A Taiwanese woman, Kuo Hui-min, 23, accompaning a rugby team in Bali for a tournament, is missing along with four members of the team, according to Glory Travel Service Co. Ltd which arranged their trip.
UNITED STATES: Two Americans were killed and three wounded in the blasts, according to a State Department official.
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Originally posted by Mr. President
Australia has never been afraid of anyone. It will not be afraid now.
You're not serious are you? Australia has always been terrified of foreign attack.
AH: I agree that troops probably won't be required to deal with this. Nevertheless, sending the SAS (which would be Australia's only useful contribution) to Iraq at this time would be a really dumb political move.
'Arguing with anonymous strangers on the internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous sixteen year olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.'
- Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
What happens if it turns out that this was in response to Australian 'interference' in East Timor?
If it's Al Qaeda's fault, then to some extent, yes. After all, OBL said that Australians in East Timor should be killed. Just the usual insane comments from the muderous *****
It just proves that this inhuman attack in Bali is totally unjustified and nonsensical. The excuses for this attack (i can't say "reasons", because there aren't any) are Australia's involvement in East Timor and Afghanistan, and only to a lesser extent our suggested involvement in Iraq. But in all this finger-pointing, it should be pointed out that there are some people in this world who hate people for no more than who they are. In this case, because we are not fanatical muslims like them. The waste of human life is senseless, and those responsible should die a slow, painful death.
Unfortunately, we now know how the Israelis feel. Do nothing and they will still attack you, because they hate you for not being like "them". Do something and risk inciting more attacks and expanding the hate beyond the fanatics.
All this begs the eternal question - why can't people just live and let live?
Originally posted by Lars-E
How is Australia gonna react to this? What sort of revenge is sought?
We'll track down the culprits and try and bring them to justice. They better hope we get em before the Indons do because they are mad as hell and they don't exactly believe in legal process up there if you know what I mean.
I doubt there'll be any acts of revenge. What good would that do?
And like unlike another big country I could name, we can't just go off the bomb the sh*t out of another country we don't like until we feel better
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
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